also, make sure your cams are degreed properly. If you've changed the heith of the deck the cam specs will be off. That makes a big difference also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ranta,
That turbo has plenty for 450hp+</TD></TR></TABLE>

How can you say that? It's a T3/T4 with a .63 A/R exhaust. It could be a 46 Trim TO4E, a small *** TO4B, or anything else.

I think the turbo is too small if you're getting knock at 15 psi on 93 octane on a 9:1 motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It could be a 46 Trim TO4E, a small *** TO4B, or anything else.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know it's not.

Only other thing is if the timing belt is off a tooth or the ignition timing is way off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know it's not.

Only other thing is if the timing belt is off a tooth or the ignition timing is way off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, so what trim is the wheel?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok, so what trim is the wheel?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pretty sure it was a 60 as I remembered it was the same one I had.
Even a 50 trim would be good for 400.

 

The turbo is a standard RevHard stage 2C turbo. He showed us dynos of guys with the SC71 and they had a ton more top end power, but a lot less mid-range due to the longer spool up time.

A/F was tuned for 12.0-12.5 range.

Ignition timing was set at 16 and then adjusted with the EMS. I'm not sure what he did as far as adjusting it. I haven't had a chance to see the maps up close.

The B16A block was decked for the GSR sized crank, rods, and pistons. He has the B16A head with B16A cams, and a GSR timing belt. Would the cams be off? The tuner had them go -1 on the exhaust and +.5 on the intake.

This was on Kwai's DynoJet.

 

I have to agree with ladysman, it ain't because of the turbo. I am running a t3 and it's still got plenty power that I can extract from it.

What kind of cams does your buddy have??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX T-Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to agree with ladysman, it ain't because of the turbo. I am running a t3 and it's still got plenty power that I can extract from it.

What kind of cams does your buddy have??

</TD></TR></TABLE>

B16 cams.

 

I've made that kinda power ona completely Stock Block GSR with a rev-hard kit on 93 Octane. Seems kinda low...

 

Dave, his motor is basically a stock GSR, but its built to handle 30 psi. He just hasn't turned it up that high. You have to remember he is running b16a cams and is only 9:1, not 10:1 or 10.6 like a GSR.

Does anyone know how much if any the cams would be off because of the decked block and GSR timing belt? That could be the whole issue.

 

Hey this is Rizzo from Twisted Koncepts in Peoria, il. Ranta is talking about my set-up. Yes i was definately disapointed by the results form the dyno. The block is from ERL performance an the deck is raised. someone mentioned maybe the timing belt is off a tooth, that very well maybe because the timing marks don't exactly match up. Should offset my cam gears til they line up and match the crank at TDC. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I was hoping for some #'s over 400 on pump gas. Thanks

 

Rizzo - I was doing some thinking and need you to verify this. Its a B16A block with a GSR crank and 9:1 pistons right? Are they B16A rods then? That would make sense to why they put the deck plate on since the only thing different would be the stroke and there is a 10.2mm (.401") difference between the B16A and GSR stroke. That looked about right to what you had as far as a deck plate.



Modified by ranta18 at 2:54 AM 9/6/2004

 

Degree wheel is your friend...

 

It is an ls crank and 1.8 Crower rods and 1.8 Darton sleeves. so it should be the same as a 1.8 LS block w/ a b16a2 head. I am not sure but I think we might have used my stock b16's timing belt gear on the ls crank. does any know if the keyway on the ls gear would be degreed differently?

 

Ok, so if its a LS crank that is 12mm difference which is .472" which would be 39.37 degrees.

If there are 38 teeth on the Skunk2 cam gears (counted from the pic on their site) then that is 9.47 degrees per tooth. So that leaves 4.15 teeth for the 39.37 degrees. Get rid of the 4 and you have .15 left. So if he tries to line up the teeth, they will be .15 of tooth off right? That leaves 1.5 degrees. He needs to go 1.5 degrees retard on both cam gears to truely be at 0,0. Someone check my thinking.

Right now he is +.5 intake and -1 exhaust which in reality is +2 intake, +.5 exhaust.

Dave is right about the degree wheel though. This is just the math way of trying to do it.

~Corrected post~



Modified by ranta18 at 2:56 AM 9/6/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ranta18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you use the same rule as milling the head, but reverse it, it would be for every .012" the head is RAISED is 1 degreed cam retard. So at .401" you are looking at 33 degrees retard? Anyone know how many teeth are on the B-series cam gears? We could take that divided by 360, then line up the cam gears and the left over number is how much he has left to advance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

.012" REMOVED = 1 degree retarded timing.

 

Nice choice on the block. You should not have any cam timing issues. You basically just turned your b16s deck height into what any b18 would be. Obviously you match your timing belt to the water pump wheather it be a b18b/c, b16 wont work.
I agree those numbers do seem low. How much timing are you running?

 

Brad - He did the opposite of milling the head. He raised the head UP .472" so that advances the timing, not retards it.

I just realized I was backwards in the previous post. Brain fart. I fixed it.


Modified by ranta18 at 2:54 AM 9/6/2004

 

No it doesn't, because you changed the timing belt length...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No it doesn't, because you changed the timing belt length...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes and also post the timing map from the AEM if at all possible.

 

Dam these B-series blocks...lol. I forgot about the different deck heights from the factory. .349" difference. Man I need to get some more sleep I think.

Rizzo - Can you verify what timing belt you have and what water pump? LS, GSR, B16? You said the cam gears looked off? I didn't really look at them.

Dave - At BOTI maybe you can take a look at it.

 

Youd have to compare his deck height to a factory GSR Deck Height...understand?

Seriously, order a degree wheel.

 

Yeah, its .349 difference and that looks to be what the added deck was on the block. It was less than a 1/2" for sure. I forgot about that and got on the wrong mind set with the whole cam timing thing.

 

the timing belt was for a gsr and I still am using my b16 waterpump. I will get the dyno sheet and the AEM maps on here tommorow night. car and laptop are at the shop. Thanks for all the help.

 

Your problem is the water pump then. Change it out for a gsr/itr and you should be ok. The b16 pump has less teeth on the gear.

Whats your timing map look like??????