VTC_CiViC

Guys, I need the help of actual hands on engine builders here, please no heresay or "my friend's" stories, I need to talk to people who've had hands on experience building engines (B-series to be precise) from the ground up. I went to SFP this weekend to get a quote on how much it'll be to rebuild the B17, and the guy quoted me at cheapest $1500 for just the block, no headwork at all, only rebuilding the block from the ground up. I have friend's however (auto tech's) who offered to help me do it in my own garage, the only thing is, these guys don't neccesarily have Honda's experience, so I wanna know from you guys what I'll need, and I mean EVERYTHING, seals, bearings etc.. to replace. Do I replace the rods? Pistons? Hone the block or no? If anybody out there can give me a little help, I'd greatly apprieciate it

newsense

You will need to replace the pistons and rods... The pistons depending upon which ones you buy will come with rings. You will need to buy rod bearings and main bearings for the crank. If you run a stock bore piston 81mm(not recommended) all you will need to do is re hone the cylinder walls. If you run an oversized piston 81.5mm you will need to bore the stock cylinder walls a bit. If you go even bigger 84.5 or 85mm you will need to resleeve. A new head gasket and head studs are necessary when ever the head comes off so include those too. Also plati-gauge is needed to check bearing clearances. Make sure whoever you choose knows what they are doing. was that $1500 just for labor?

VTC_CiViC

The $1500 I belive was parts and labor for a full rebuild, sounds ok to you? I'm confident in us doing the work right, but at the same time I wound't mind letting a reputable shop like SFP do the work either. NOw I noticed you said the stock bore 81mm pistons should go and I should go bigger, I assume this is to keep the cylinder wall to piston clearence as close to original as possible right? What about the oil pump? The water pump was replaced maybe 10 months ago so I wont worry about that, anything else i'm missing?

Rob03Pro5

Dave,

I know you dont want replies without hands on experience on B series motors.. but I just built my own motor myself. If are decent with tools, you can do it yourself. The only thing you'll need to do is send the block to a machinist and also give him your crank, new rods/pistons so he can clean, deck, hone/bore your block and grind your crank to receive new bearings. You'll want to replace all bearings, head-bolts, main cap bolts. If you're gonna do headwork, also replace camshaft cap bolts. You just have the machinist do all the machine work.. then you take it back home and build it yourself. It's really not that hard. Make sure you have plenty of oil and assembly lube! You want this motor to handle boost right? well, you should definitely get some new rods/pistons.. get Eagle rods.. they're cheap and work great.

Btw, I recommend you to talk to Laz from Mesa Balancing. He was my machinist. He's the one that does SFP's work.. best machinist in S. Florida. His number is (305) 884-5368 and located in Hialeah. Without head work, labor for machining should be around $700 depending on what you work out with him. TTYL, good luck!

VTC_CiViC

Awesome, thanks Rob!!

Rob03Pro5

BTW, forgot to mention.. he's hard to get on the phone sometimes.. I usually drive to him.. you can take 874 to 826 (palmetto) get off to 836 (towards Airport) and get off on the LeJune exit.. keep going straight and make a RIGHT on to Okechobee RD.. then make a left at 9th Ct.. go down a while.. his shop is number 1045.. doesn't have a MEsa Balancing banner or anything.. If he's there he'll have a big black dually in the front.

VTC_CiViC

Not bad, like 10 mins frommy job (I work right off the 836 near galloway rd.), thanks again dude, I really apprieciate it. If his work is $700 roughly, then SFP is really only charging me like $800 for parts and labor to put the motor together, which is actually damn good. I totally forgot about the machining, so I guess that's a pretty good deal Javi is giving me.. might just have to take them up on it. I assume Laz does P&P work too right? I ask because my friend just got a hold of a Y8 head to put on his Y7 block but he'd like to give it a good P&P job first and we're looking for a good machnist to do the job, thanks Rob

Rob03Pro5

Ya, Laz can do excellent P&P. But, he's not cheap.. the price you pay for excellent work. That $700 thing is just a rough estimate.. here's what he charged me for:

Three Angle VJ & Surface: $225
Gasket Match & Bowl Blend: $225
Bore & Hone: $85
Parallel Deck: $75
Balance Assembly: $175
Grind Crank: $85
------------------------------------------
Total: $870

So assuming you only let him do the block, it'll cost around $420-$450 depending on what you do. I said $700 cuz that was the first number to pop in my head! LOL.

rtype11

you can do almost no work to the block your self except assemble, you will want crank and flywheel clutch all balanced/lightened, bore's must be toleranced, crank journals most likely need align honing, I would pay the shop to do the work, they have all the tools you will likely need to buy, they will clean and examine your block, choose correct bearing sizes etc...you cant slap rods and pistons onto a crank. make sure you get some arp hardware in there also.

bigTom

grind crank? what exactly do u mean?

Rob03Pro5

Grind Crank = polishing/honing crank/rod journals.

"Grind Crank" was what he used on my invoice.

karmannghia

To rebuild a crank. You need to grind the crank down to the next specification due to wear from the bearings on the crank. Once that is done, you need the bearings to match with that grind .010 or .020 which should be provided by the machinist. I haven't done a honda personally but done a couple of Volkswagen. Its best to send it to a shop. The only thing you can do is assembling it, but then you will need proper torque, clearance gauge, etc..One last thing, you need a dustfree (if possible) area, because a little speck here and there will ruin everything.

VTC_CiViC

Yea, considering the price SFP quoted me at, and considering the machine work involded which I totally overlooked, I think I'll sleep easier letting SFP do the work on the motor for me and build her up 100% OEM. After that it's just a matter f junking the body and finding a nice 5-6G HB to put it in

Suprdave

I was under the impression that OEM Honda Bearings did not come oversized, so you actually couldn't take any ammount of material off the crank. If I am correct, if you want to use OEM Honda Bearings (Which have great tolerances) you can only polish the crank down to the looser end of the Bearing Clearances.

Something that pertains to Hondas but not most other Engines.

Suprdave

dustin

Honda makes 4 different bearing sizes. So depending on how large the journals were to begin with, you may be able to remove some material and step up to the next size bearing.

Dustin

C-speed

If you decide to do it yourself, here's whats involved - enjoy:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.html
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/nabuild/nabuild.html
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/m...ild/build.html

singlecam screamer

well vtc i have a couple of freinds that are ase certified and have there own shop,it's called cfm,it's really close to sfp,and they only deal with honda's and acura's they are the ones that work on my car and i have never had a problem,and they are experienced,there number is 786-242-3393 there names are forrest and jared,tell them rudy sent you,and good luck with the rebuild

VTC_CiViC

Rudy... I take it you have an EG Si? IS it black by any chance?

turboex

hey if you want machine work done. i can get you the bottom end: bored over, hot tanked, balanced and yyour rings fitted for under 300bucks. just let me know. and this guy builds drag cars, topfuel style. a great machinest

singlecam screamer

yeah it's black ,and i recently bought a white one too why?