Since i am going to be breaking in a new motor in a few weeks, i would like to hear what some of you other honda guys have to say.

I have always heard the "1000 miles, change the oil 5 times" thing all of my life, but i always heard it from older guys with iron block motors, does this REALLY apply to aluminum block motors?

i mean i dont even drive my car 1000 miles in a year maybe, so is there an alternative to breaking them in, such as thier is with bikes on the dyno?


i mean what do guys who put motors together for races do, i know they dont have time to run it 1000 miles

any input is appreciated, just wanted to get some other opinions

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878397

 

Brake in is overated I personlly put a fully built motor right on the dyno after 3-4 heat cycles at about a 2000 rpm, changes the oil after each heat cycle just to ensure no metal. I am not the only one who has done this either and i learned this from a reputable builder

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtekthis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brake in is overated I personlly put a fully built motor right on the dyno after 3-4 heat cycles at about a 2000 rpm, changes the oil after each heat cycle just to ensure no metal. I am not the only one who has done this either and i learned this from a reputable builder </TD></TR></TABLE>


honestly thats what i planned to do, i was gonna just run with it, i mean, im sure i will have the rings seated in under a 100 miles or so


thanks guys

 

i built mine last winter...followed the heat cycle method.....

assembled it all
filled w/ dino oil
got car to start & idle...let run to full operating temp
change oil w/ new dino oil...flushing out motor w/ a couple extra bottles...
started car again...heat cycled and took for a small drive...staying out of boost....
drove it pretty easy w/ a couple spirited pulls to 6k not hitting boost...

then at 500miles changed over to syntehtic and havent stop beating on it since at 15psi

great compression across the motor...only thing that was a lil lousy was my rich tune causing some carbon buildup...

just make sure you get oil pressure into the motor before tyrin to fire it up...

 

what does it mean when you guys say "heat cycle"?? does it mean warming it up to operating temperature and then shutting it down and warming it up again?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MRturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what does it mean when you guys say "heat cycle"?? does it mean warming it up to operating temperature and then shutting it down and warming it up again?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah somewhat. A lot of people have different thoughts on proper engine break in, Evans tuning page has a great write up, look for that.

 

I have tuned a bunch of car right from the machine shop into the car then 10-15-20 psi. Only brake in is start up, wait for oil pressure let it run for 10 min hitting the throttle to 3-4000 rpm then drain the oil then tuning. Hope this helps

 

heat cycle, change oil, heat cycle, change oil, strap on dyno, make 800+ hp, change oil.

yep, im wasteful

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heat cycle, change oil, heat cycle, change oil, strap on dyno, make 800+ hp, change oil.

yep, im wasteful</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

How about breaking in a motor on stock ecu, stock injectors, but fully built motor (ie: sleeves, rods, pistons, upgraded head, stock cams)? Will the stock ecu adjust the air/fuel for proper break-in? Also, the turbo is off during this break-in period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtekthis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brake in is overated I personlly put a fully built motor right on the dyno after 3-4 heat cycles at about a 2000 rpm, changes the oil after each heat cycle just to ensure no metal. I am not the only one who has done this either and i learned this from a reputable builder </TD></TR></TABLE>

wow thats some pretty good advice right there, thanks for the recognition. i guess im just some reputable builder who showed you this on one of the many nights i stayed all night at the shop to help you out. i guess you cant mention my name, oh well. but whatever it is it is, remember this darren those whom you think are you friends are not, i hear everything. it all comes back to me and all the **** you talk spreads real quick.

as far as the heat cycles there is a little more involved to it then that to make sure everything is up to par. within the heat cycles i try to get the engine water temp up to about 190-200 degrees, then let it cool all the way down to ice cold, usually resulting in about 1-1.5 hours in between cycles, during the cool down periods i like to cut open the oil filter and see how things are looking. after the first heat cycle if everything is ok and once everything is cool i also like to pull the cams a retourque the heads studs, and check valve lash one last time. after this i will repeat the heat cycle/oil change 2 more times. then proceed to tune the engine. thre are also other things that come into play that you really should do as far as setting the timing, checking oil pressures at different locations and make sure the engine isnt running to rich or lean,etc,etc,etc..... these are all things that need to be looked over, but hey to each there own.


Modified by miller at 11:22 AM 3/29/2006

 

I have installed my fully built brand new motor, waiting on my turbo since Precision has it on back order....
I might take off the turbo manifold, put the stock header, stock injectors and stock ecu and just drive it around to make sure it runs right.....

I was originally planning on breaking it in on the dyno that way the piston rings could seat.....

But i might do the whole 1000 mile thing if i put it to NA

 

Start it and let it idle for a second then turn it off and let the coolant in the block soak up heat to open the thermostat. Then turn it on again so you dont have cold radiator coolant coming in to the hot block when the thermo decides to open.

Then idle, then oil, then drive.

 

From what I read, if the engine builder knows his stuff and does good work there's no need to let the piston rings "seat" themselves. And if the motor is built right there shouldn't really be a need to break it in. Start it and go.

 

Start it up, let it run for 20min @ ~2500RPM. Tune @ first start up. Change oil. Drive. I'd change your oil a couple/few times within the first 500-1000miles. Biggest thing that I have heard is to do a lot of engine braking to seat the rings.

KEEP IT TUNED from the first second that it runs.

 

what about for the person who is building the motor at home (all machining at machine shop though) and the tuner is 50 miles away?? More than likely it will be tuned on uberdata but I have no tuning tools to get a base tune to move the car with boost.

 

trailor it, thats what i was planning on doing even the fact that the tuner is 15 miles away...


Here is what my engine builder said (Earl Laskey)]
The Proper Method to Break in your New Engine
One of the most asked questions is how do I break in my new motor? The short answer is that no break-in is necessary. The only thing that is necessary is to seat the rings. All clearances and fitments should be perfect after blueprinting and precision assembly. So how many miles do you have to drive it to seat the rings? The cylinders are round, the rings are round, the bore is freshly honed and therefore your engine should be ready for tuning immediately. They will continue to seat better over a short period of time but you should be ready to go tune right away.
Do I need to drive it 500 miles before I tune it? Absolutely not. How about 50 miles? No. Perhaps the best thing to do is to drive it all the way to your trailer and tow it to a competent tuner. In second position on the “things NOT to do list” is trying to break in an un-tuned engine by driving it. Too lean an air/fuel will begin to heat and distort parts, too rich will wash the oil off the cylinders causing premature wear. What is in first place on the “things NOT to do list”? Boost on an un-tuned motor. Within 2 to 3 seconds the pistons and cylinders can be ruined.
Well I did put in a new base map or I’m just running off the stock Honda computer. Can’t I drive it like that for a few miles? I’m not even boosting. Well what is the base map? Just someone’s idea of what numbers will start your car. Just an educated guess by someone who does not have a clue what components you are running in your set-up. It’s not intended to drive on for any extended period of time. The same with that stock Honda computer. It could be ok but it could also be dangerously wrong.
So what exactly do I do at the first engine start-up? Pull the spark plugs and crank the motor with your starter for a maximum of 30 seconds or until you see the oil pressure gauge begin to register. Re-install the plugs and wires and fire up that candle. While keeping one eye on the oil pressure gauge, use your other eye to scan for fuel leaks. If there are no fuel leaks, look under the motor for any major oil or coolant leaks. If that is ok, run the engine for 5 to 10 minutes while keeping an eye on the temperature and pressure gauges. Keep the rpm’s between 1000-3000. Shut the engine down and double-check everything. You are now ready for tuning.
But my engine was already tuned from my previous set-up. Well, what happened to your previous set-up? Did you melt a stock piston or crack a cylinder? No problem because now you have forged pistons and sleeves? Wrong. Although you now have stronger components that will take more abuse, you are still not right on your air fuel mixture. Get that thing tuned properly ASAP.
OK, I did it my way instead of yours and now I’m burning a lot of oil. What happened? Well basically you scarred up the skirt of the piston, messed up the surface of the cylinder wall and maybe even egg shaped the cylinder. New pistons are tapered smaller on the top to larger at the bottom of the skirt. Your piston to wall clearance is measured at the bottom of the skirt. As the engine warms up to operating temperature, the upper portion of the piston begins to expand slightly. The bottom of the skirt does not expand much. When you boost in a lean condition, the upper part of the piston expands quickly. Since the ring land area is cut smaller than the tapered skirt below it, the first part of the piston that pushes into the cylinder wall is just below the oil ring. Thus you will see the worst scarring on your piston right under the ring lands where the excess heat is the highest.

The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninformed would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance. Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls.
OK, I’m just going to turn the fuel pressure way up and run extra fat, that way I won’t hurt anything. If you run too rich, you will “wash out” the rings. First, excess fuel will run down the cylinders taking the lubricating oil with it. This promotes direct metal-to-metal contact between the rings and the cylinder wall. This contact does several things. The upper ring begins to wear quickly. The middle ring is actually designed as a tapered oil scraper (it is not used for compression control at all) and the taper will begin to wear down to where it becomes flat rather than angled. When that happens, it can no longer control oil away from the combustion chamber. The last thing that happens is that pretty cross hatch design begins to wear off of the cylinder wall. While most people think that the cross hatch is there to help seat the rings, it also has a secondary purpose. That is to hold microscopic amounts of oil in the grooves to help lubricate ring to cylinder walls. With the walls smooth and no oil control help from the middle ring and a tired upper ring, oil will begin to mix with fuel in the combustion chamber. When this happens, your 93 octane fuel probably hits a value of about 80. Then detonation comes into play and begins to beat holes in the pistons, among other things.
So whom can I blame for this mess? The blind machinist that honed my piston to wall clearance? That poor quality Brand X piston manufacturer? The idiot pro engine builder that assembled my block? My ex-friend that helped me put this all together? Those ignorant engineers that gave me a bad base map with my engine management system? The guy on the internet message board whose buddy knows that it takes at least 1000 miles of break in before you can tune an engine properly? All of the above? Probably none of the above. Go look in a mirror and ask…who started this engine and had no idea what the air fuel ratio was? Who just wanted to jump on it one time to see if it would haul? Who didn’t know that their injectors were at 100% duty cycle at 4000 rpm but they wanted to see how it would run at 6000 rpm? Why it was you. Get that thing tuned right away. You will notice that the more you drive a tuned motor, the stronger it will feel. This is just the rings seating in their final 5-10% as they thank you for tuning first.

Thats Earl's good write up...
http://www.laskeyracing.com

 

Buy some Supertech oil (cheap). Turn it on. Let it idle one heat cycle. Check for leaks. Change the oil. Let it heat cycle again with the idle at 2,000RPM. Change the oil. Finally go pull some 10's in the green machine Did this with ICS's, X's, my own, etc.

 

Also, when the thermo is either open or closed (not opening) you can just take the radiator cap off and put the bleed into the open radiator. If you use clear line you can leave it like that untill all the bubbles are gone.

 

Here is the link to that write up by Earl --&gt; https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878397

Oh and I clicked the little red search button and typed in "break in" and searched only in the archieved forced induction section.....108 results.

 

if you hadn't noticed that link had been posted about 2 times already

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy some Supertech oil (cheap). Turn it on. Let it idle one heat cycle. Check for leaks. Change the oil. Let it heat cycle again with the idle at 2,000RPM. Change the oil. Finally go pull some 10's in the green machine Did this with ICS's, X's, my own, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats about what i plan on doin, the motor im runing right now, i started with NO radiator and let it run till i saw it get up to about half on the gauge and then shut it off, and you know how she has performed so far.

3 years not a single issue

 

Link = 1 before me
Write up = 1

Sshhhhhh maybe they won't notice

 

after warm up..dyno... after dyno track