JDMAF

Hey guys having some issue during our assembly of our block...
It's a sleeved b18c1 bored to 84mm
eagle rods
wiesco pistons
freshly micropolished std gsr crank
ACL Race bearings

We followed the assembly videos that Jeff Evens put up on you tube.

All clearances are good bearing wise. All tq sequences followed. Stretched the bolts correctly.

Got it all tq down and it wont turn... so we started by removing the mains one by one still no turn... I Then went back to the video from evens where he explains that you need .010 clearance side to side between the rod caps and the crank... 3 of them I'm able to get the feeler gauge in number 1 is tight... loosen number one rod cap and boom it turns light as a feather...

Not sure what to do here...

JDMAF

PS this block was assembled and running fine before tear down and freshening...

Mfoehrkolb

If #1 is tight with clearance, then you loosen it and it frees it up... Doesn't that tell you where the problem lies? That isn't me being cocky, but you kinda answered your own question on what to do next.

JDMAF

yes side gap is to tight... I know what the problem is...What do you do to fix it is what I'm asking...

JDMAF

rod bearing clearance if fine its rod side gap that is tight...

Mfoehrkolb

How much do you have to loosen the rod bolts in order to get it to spin?

EDIT: IIRC you do not use a feeler gauge to check for side to side clearance. What you do is you measure across the rod journal, and then measure your rod width and the difference in the clearance. Without doing any research to double verify, i believe the above statement to be true.

ANOTHER EDIT: Also, try using the correct sized feeler gauge in between the rod while torquing it down to aid in keeping proper spacing. Make sure you triple check all your measurements... You can never be too meticulous when building your motor.

ONE MORE EDIT: What bearing did you use last time? What bearings are you using now? Did you measure rod bolt stretch properly? You are using a stock gsr block and crank? I believe that it. Please answer all the question's above in depth... shotty answers give shotty suggestions.

JDMAF

You have to break both rod bolts loose in order to get it to turn...

I'm going off of Jeff Evens of Evens Tuning on you tube where he shows to use a .010 feeler gauge to measure side gap.

There is no way to get the feeler gauge in there to tighten the rod cap to keep proper spacing...

We re-plasi-gauged everything 2 times each with exact same measurement.
Last build was using same acl race bearings... Yes rod bolt stretch was measured correctly. 30wt oil was used on all threads rods and mains. when tqing

The block is a Eagle sleeved b18c1 punched out to 84mm

Stock crank micropolished and balanced. STD size

Mfoehrkolb

What were your measurements for rod journal, and the rods bore?

Starting at 1ft lb, and increasing in 1lb increments... When does the crank become difficult to turn? What does it stop turning? What have you torque spec have you been using? Have you checked the bearing to see if there is any odd wear marks from something that wasn't deburred/chamfer'd correctly?

My suggestions as of now would try changing the rod on that journal, and see if that changes anything. Also depending on what your response is to the measurements, try using a thinner bearing. I know i am talking rod bore, but if the clearances are too tight, it can prevent the rod to be able to move side to side as it should.

JDMAF

I'm about 20 miles from my shop right now... but all Mains and Rods were polished within .0001 and all rods are the same.

Bearings look good and all measured between .0015 and .0016 oil clearance. No abnormal wear markings what so ever...

Tq spec that are being used are as follows...

Inner mains 49lbs (22, then 49)
1&5 Mains 56lbs (22, then 56)
Rods stretched to .0060 (spec calls for .0058 - .0062)

Mfoehrkolb

Try the switching of rods and re measure before and after of course. See if that changes anything... Go from there once we hear back with the results.

Mfoehrkolb

Also, i know JEff Evans is very responsive with his email (or at least he was years ago when i messaged him about my old track car), and he is normally an open book of knowledge. Feel free to send him an email and see what his thoughts are. I say this because i am no master engine builder, but just a guy who knows a whole bunch about a bunch of stuff.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

You can lightly sand down each side of the rod to increase clearances. That's the only way to really do it. It won't cause any issues as the bearing doesn't cover the full width of the bearing cap

Use high grit *1000+* and make sure you use a flat surface to prevent uneven-ness. Do very small increments until the desired side clearances are met

tron_

Was going to post this, try swapping rods and see if you are still having clearance issues. Also I would measure all the rods and journals to see if there is an issue with part tolerance. Something has to be causing the issue and I'm thinking it has to do with part tolerance.

If you don't feel comfortable sanding the rod to the proper width, I would machine the face using a mill to ensure it is decked completely parallel to the other side.

JDMAF

Ok... I broke down the block today and tried assembly on the bench...

That rod locks down no matter where on the crank you put it... the rod cap measures out as well...

So I figure well lets just put the rod cap on the crank with the bearing installed and see if its tight... its not... it has proper clearance but the second you attach it to the rod and tq it down it locks up...

Question... with eagle rods the tangs are on the same side right just like stock rods??? meaning both the cap tang and rod tang are on the same side facing the exhaust side of the block...

I did notice after assembly of rod off the crank that there is a ridge on each side of the rod on both the outside of the rod and the rod journal where the cap meets the rod... where you can catch a finger nail... I'm starting to think that the dowels in the rod are bent and not allowing the cap to line up with the rod properly...

Thoughts...

Mach1n1st

Pictures of this would help greatly

Mfoehrkolb

--- Cool, well we know it's not crank related anymore. Now you have to do some more simple diagnostics to figure out if it's the cap and or the rod creating problems.

Try switching a cap from another rod and put it on the problematic one. Take measurements and see what all results are with the binding issue.

If you have no more problems after switching a cap.. Then you know your cap is messed up for whatever reason. If the problem remains, then you know the rod is messed up in some way shape or form.


I really recommend breaking out the mic and take measurements of everything you may think is bent... and compare it to a good rod that isn't giving you problems.

JDMAF

turns out eagle rods have numbers stamped in them on the side... somewhere along the line the wrong rod cap was on the wrong rod... why 2 rods weren't messed up I don't know... but you match them up and the engine spins free... thanks for the help guys...

sanman000719

lol wow really

and now you know

Mfoehrkolb

good luck with the rest of your build!!! :D

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

check for mismatched rod caps... just had this exact same problem last night with a 4.6l Ford motor we are building. Had a 3rd party assemble pistons & rods, but when we went to assemble the shortblock, one rod would seize the rotating assy. We found 3 total rod caps to be mismatched. Put them back as they should, and all is well.

Hope this helps.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yup mismatched caps can be a bitch because it makes the rod big end bore just out of round enough to be a real ***** lol.

I normally take a punch and give 1-4 punch marks on both the cap and rod, makes for easy identification of both so pair matching is easier, as I've seen the numbers fade, which then means without the marks that the only way to ensure a proper pair is to mic each big end which isn't any fun as you've just seen firsthand

Justs13r

sounds like you have some rod caps or mybe main bearing caps backwards...
this will call for this....
have you tried for clearances... you need too check...
if there off you need a line hone