EGT Temps
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From: NoVA, USA
Re: (kpt4321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Told told you already, I think EGT's indicate the averge kinetic eneregy (temperature) of the exhaust molecules leaving the motor.
It's a moderately decent tuning reference, but only if you have the rest of the proper equipment (wideband, possibly knock detection, etc).
It can NOT be used by itself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well telling people that it is stupid to base engine safety on EGT's is just plain wrong in my opinion.
If I'm boosting one day and my EGT's are 1400 and another day I'm boosting the same amount and my EGT's are 1600 that tells me something is wrong.
Who knows, somebody could have taken my car for a spin and filled it up with regular gasoline causing the high EGT's.
I think EGT's are a good way to monitor the safety of your engine. Now tuning based on EGT's........that is stupid
Told told you already, I think EGT's indicate the averge kinetic eneregy (temperature) of the exhaust molecules leaving the motor.
It's a moderately decent tuning reference, but only if you have the rest of the proper equipment (wideband, possibly knock detection, etc).
It can NOT be used by itself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well telling people that it is stupid to base engine safety on EGT's is just plain wrong in my opinion.
If I'm boosting one day and my EGT's are 1400 and another day I'm boosting the same amount and my EGT's are 1600 that tells me something is wrong.
Who knows, somebody could have taken my car for a spin and filled it up with regular gasoline causing the high EGT's.
I think EGT's are a good way to monitor the safety of your engine. Now tuning based on EGT's........that is stupid
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From: Come to the, DarkSide
Re: EGT Temps (hypa)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think your guage is working fine.
I know mine hits 1600 quite often, but I'm not worried at all since everytime I check the plugs, they look awesome, and every few months when I tear down the motor, the internals look good.
I hit 800 at idle, up to around 1200 at part throttle, and peak at about 1600 at WOT in the 1/4 mile.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you hit 1600 often?
what octane is that? damn you have some money to tear down the motor every few months
I think your guage is working fine.
I know mine hits 1600 quite often, but I'm not worried at all since everytime I check the plugs, they look awesome, and every few months when I tear down the motor, the internals look good.
I hit 800 at idle, up to around 1200 at part throttle, and peak at about 1600 at WOT in the 1/4 mile.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you hit 1600 often?
what octane is that? damn you have some money to tear down the motor every few months
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Manchester, NH, USA
Like I said, it works asa tuning REFERENCE when the car is tuned with the proper tools.
However, the fact that in the situation you mentioned, your EGT gauge would help you, has absolutely nothing to do with how high the temperature was. It's simply the fact that there was a CHANGE.
As such, the peak temperautre, and using peak temperatures to indicate whether a motor is safe or not, is never a good idea.
The way you're suggesting to use it is fine.
However, the fact that in the situation you mentioned, your EGT gauge would help you, has absolutely nothing to do with how high the temperature was. It's simply the fact that there was a CHANGE.
As such, the peak temperautre, and using peak temperatures to indicate whether a motor is safe or not, is never a good idea.
The way you're suggesting to use it is fine.
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From: somewhere in the valley,, BC.
Re: EGT Temps (Soon_2b_evil)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soon_2b_evil »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you hit 1600 often?
what octane is that? damn you have some money to tear down the motor every few months</TD></TR></TABLE>
I run a minimum of 94 octane pump, but have run 103 since my last dyno and track experience. I hit 1650 once, but fried my cat. Internals all still looked good though.
As for tearing the motor down, it's still cheaper than cocaine and hookers!
what octane is that? damn you have some money to tear down the motor every few months</TD></TR></TABLE>
I run a minimum of 94 octane pump, but have run 103 since my last dyno and track experience. I hit 1650 once, but fried my cat. Internals all still looked good though.
As for tearing the motor down, it's still cheaper than cocaine and hookers!
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Re: EGT Temps (underpressure02)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by underpressure02 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My egt crusing on the highway in 5th at about 80 with a gsr tranny is around 650-700 degrees C. When I am on it hard the hottest I ever hit was 800 degrees C. Mine is mounted on my manifold in the #3 cylinder. </TD></TR></TABLE>
same
650C=1200F
700C=1292F
800C=1472F
if yall didnt want to convert those numbers
same
650C=1200F
700C=1292F
800C=1472F
if yall didnt want to convert those numbers
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Re: EGT Temps (djfob)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djfob »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry about going off topic but is the #3 runner 2nd from the left or right? </TD></TR></TABLE>
mines number 3 runner from left side (if you were standing in front of the car)
</TD></TR></TABLE>mines number 3 runner from left side (if you were standing in front of the car)
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From: NoVA, USA
Re: EGT Temps (djfob)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djfob »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry about going off topic but is the #3 runner 2nd from the left or right? </TD></TR></TABLE>
If you are standing in front of your car;
#1 runner is on the far right
#4 runner is on the far left
</TD></TR></TABLE>If you are standing in front of your car;
#1 runner is on the far right
#4 runner is on the far left
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From: Come to the, DarkSide
Re: EGT Temps (hypa)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I run a minimum of 94 octane pump, but have run 103 since my last dyno and track experience. I hit 1650 once, but fried my cat. Internals all still looked good though.
As for tearing the motor down, it's still cheaper than cocaine and hookers!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
your running a JRSC right? what PSI are you when your@ WOT?
whats your engine temp like tho?
I know those right real hot.
Now since he's runnning a JRSC does that effect his EGT compared to a Turbo?
I run a minimum of 94 octane pump, but have run 103 since my last dyno and track experience. I hit 1650 once, but fried my cat. Internals all still looked good though.
As for tearing the motor down, it's still cheaper than cocaine and hookers!
</TD></TR></TABLE>your running a JRSC right? what PSI are you when your@ WOT?
whats your engine temp like tho?
I know those right real hot.
Now since he's runnning a JRSC does that effect his EGT compared to a Turbo?
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Seattle, Wa, USA
Re: EGT Temps (Hella_JDM)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a turbo car id mount it after the turbo just to be safe as mentioned before . if broken your turbo will be destroyed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why? It is proven that this way is inaccurate. Why buy a EGT gauge for $120+ and not use it to it's complete effectiveness?
BTW, if you install the probe correctly you should never have to worry about it breaking off. But feel free to do it wrong if you want.
Why? It is proven that this way is inaccurate. Why buy a EGT gauge for $120+ and not use it to it's complete effectiveness?
BTW, if you install the probe correctly you should never have to worry about it breaking off. But feel free to do it wrong if you want.
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From: Come to the, DarkSide
Re: EGT Temps (J337_UNIT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J337_UNIT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5th gear cruising on partial throttle at around 3000-3500 rpms im like 1400-1450 degrees F.</TD></TR></TABLE>
werd im liking it. so i should be looking from 1200-1500rpms.
werd im liking it. so i should be looking from 1200-1500rpms.
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From: somewhere in the valley,, BC.
Re: EGT Temps (Soon_2b_evil)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soon_2b_evil »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
your running a JRSC right? what PSI are you when your@ WOT?
whats your engine temp like tho?
I know those right real hot.
Now since he's runnning a JRSC does that effect his EGT compared to a Turbo?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was running 9psi at the time. Engine temp is around 185 (if I remember right) based on the Hondalogger.
your running a JRSC right? what PSI are you when your@ WOT?
whats your engine temp like tho?
I know those right real hot.
Now since he's runnning a JRSC does that effect his EGT compared to a Turbo?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was running 9psi at the time. Engine temp is around 185 (if I remember right) based on the Hondalogger.
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From: The Cow Pasture
Re: EGT Temps (hypa)
There must not be any tuners here...
An EGT is the primary (next to using an aftermarket knock sensor) way to tune timing. I datalog my A/F ratio and exhaust gas temps and have been able to make a lot of power over the stock maps (and especially since I used to use the shitty VAFC hack) just by keeping the EGT's in the correct ranges.
An EGT is the primary (next to using an aftermarket knock sensor) way to tune timing. I datalog my A/F ratio and exhaust gas temps and have been able to make a lot of power over the stock maps (and especially since I used to use the shitty VAFC hack) just by keeping the EGT's in the correct ranges.
Brrraaaap!
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From: AZ
Re: EGT Temps (TeamCracka)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamCracka »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There must not be any tuners here...
An EGT is the primary (next to using an aftermarket knock sensor) way to tune timing. I datalog my A/F ratio and exhaust gas temps and have been able to make a lot of power over the stock maps (and especially since I used to use the shitty VAFC hack) just by keeping the EGT's in the correct ranges.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What are the "correct ranges" then? I am interested to know. Thanks
Blaze
An EGT is the primary (next to using an aftermarket knock sensor) way to tune timing. I datalog my A/F ratio and exhaust gas temps and have been able to make a lot of power over the stock maps (and especially since I used to use the shitty VAFC hack) just by keeping the EGT's in the correct ranges.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What are the "correct ranges" then? I am interested to know. Thanks
Blaze
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From: Seattle, Wa, USA
Re: EGT Temps (TeamCracka)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An EGT is the primary (next to using an aftermarket knock sensor) way to tune timing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly
Exactly
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Re: EGT Temps (TeamCracka)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamCracka »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There must not be any tuners here...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, we're just doing real tuning, not ******* with VAFC hacks and FMU's.
Being a great tuner, I bet you know that you'll get high EGT's with either too lean, or too rich a fuel condition. I also bet you knew that you get high egt's by running too advanced timing, but also if you run too retarded timing.
So Mr. elite tuner, how do you know what's causing your EGT changes?
And when you tell me that, you can also tell me these magic ranges, because I'd love for you to teach me what some of the nations best tuners have been unable to.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, we're just doing real tuning, not ******* with VAFC hacks and FMU's.
Being a great tuner, I bet you know that you'll get high EGT's with either too lean, or too rich a fuel condition. I also bet you knew that you get high egt's by running too advanced timing, but also if you run too retarded timing.
So Mr. elite tuner, how do you know what's causing your EGT changes?
And when you tell me that, you can also tell me these magic ranges, because I'd love for you to teach me what some of the nations best tuners have been unable to.
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From: The Cow Pasture
Re: EGT Temps (hypa)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, we're just doing real tuning, not ******* with VAFC hacks and FMU's.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dumbass, when did I say I was a great tuner? And no I'm not running FMU's or the hack or any of that bandaid crap.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Being a great tuner, I bet you know that you'll get high EGT's with either too lean, or too rich a fuel condition. I also bet you knew that you get high egt's by running too advanced timing, but also if you run too retarded timing.
So Mr. elite tuner, how do you know what's causing your EGT changes?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm.... You just answered your own question dipshit.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And when you tell me that, you can also tell me these magic ranges, because I'd love for you to teach me what some of the nations best tuners have been unable to.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Everyone that tunes knows that an EGT is not an absolute number for a given A/F, ignition timing, etc - it is to be used as a reference point. Obviously EGT's will vary a lot based on octane, cylinder pressure, head flow, etc etc. They can tell you if you have a dead cylinder, but NOT if your motor is tuned properly.
Anyway, of course there isnt a "range" of numbers. Placement of the sensor, what runner you put it on, the resistance of the sensors ground, heat, and gauge all play parts in effecting the number so of course you cant be given a safe range that you need to tune to based off what your buddy said. Radio frequency interference, malfunctioning sensors, poor electrical connections, voltage spikes and other factors can produce inaccurate information, keep that in mind with ANY SENSOR.
The point is, I personally dont use them to tune fuel, thats what I have a wideband for and datalogging, but I do use them to make adjustments to timing when I datalog the EGT's and see a spike or a point at which it doesnt steadly increase while moving up in the boost and RPM columns.
Thats how I feel about EGT's, they are more than an "ok my exhaust gas temperature is 1325 degrees ... ok yay"
No, we're just doing real tuning, not ******* with VAFC hacks and FMU's.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dumbass, when did I say I was a great tuner? And no I'm not running FMU's or the hack or any of that bandaid crap.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Being a great tuner, I bet you know that you'll get high EGT's with either too lean, or too rich a fuel condition. I also bet you knew that you get high egt's by running too advanced timing, but also if you run too retarded timing.
So Mr. elite tuner, how do you know what's causing your EGT changes?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm.... You just answered your own question dipshit.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypa »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And when you tell me that, you can also tell me these magic ranges, because I'd love for you to teach me what some of the nations best tuners have been unable to.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Everyone that tunes knows that an EGT is not an absolute number for a given A/F, ignition timing, etc - it is to be used as a reference point. Obviously EGT's will vary a lot based on octane, cylinder pressure, head flow, etc etc. They can tell you if you have a dead cylinder, but NOT if your motor is tuned properly.
Anyway, of course there isnt a "range" of numbers. Placement of the sensor, what runner you put it on, the resistance of the sensors ground, heat, and gauge all play parts in effecting the number so of course you cant be given a safe range that you need to tune to based off what your buddy said. Radio frequency interference, malfunctioning sensors, poor electrical connections, voltage spikes and other factors can produce inaccurate information, keep that in mind with ANY SENSOR.
The point is, I personally dont use them to tune fuel, thats what I have a wideband for and datalogging, but I do use them to make adjustments to timing when I datalog the EGT's and see a spike or a point at which it doesnt steadly increase while moving up in the boost and RPM columns.
Thats how I feel about EGT's, they are more than an "ok my exhaust gas temperature is 1325 degrees ... ok yay"
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From: somewhere in the valley,, BC.
Re: EGT Temps (TeamCracka)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamCracka »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Umm.... You just answered your own question dipshit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
No I didn't!
I said that it could be a great number of things that cause the EGT's to rise. When you're looking at a guage with a single temp sensor, how in the hell do you know what it going on, or what's causing it by reading the EGT alone?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They can tell you if you have a dead cylinder, but NOT if your motor is tuned properly. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly.
However, anyone who knows their vehicle will know if they have a dead cylinder without the use of a guage.
And EGT guage is a good tool to use for ensuring the engine is running safe, but if you're on a budget I know of at least 3 other guages or measuring devices that would be better. The first being an wideband, #2 being a datalog device, and third being a fuel pressure guage.
EGT guages are expensive, and I wish I hadn't bought mine when so many other tools are better.
</TD></TR></TABLE>No I didn't!
I said that it could be a great number of things that cause the EGT's to rise. When you're looking at a guage with a single temp sensor, how in the hell do you know what it going on, or what's causing it by reading the EGT alone?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They can tell you if you have a dead cylinder, but NOT if your motor is tuned properly. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly.
However, anyone who knows their vehicle will know if they have a dead cylinder without the use of a guage.
And EGT guage is a good tool to use for ensuring the engine is running safe, but if you're on a budget I know of at least 3 other guages or measuring devices that would be better. The first being an wideband, #2 being a datalog device, and third being a fuel pressure guage.
EGT guages are expensive, and I wish I hadn't bought mine when so many other tools are better.
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From: The Cow Pasture
Re: EGT Temps (hypa)
Good response, so then let me ask this, how should timing be tuned? You cant sit on the dyno all day saying .... "ok at 16mm/Hg and 5700rpms, I'm gonna add +0.5 degrees ignition advance and see what happens."
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From: somewhere in the valley,, BC.
Re: EGT Temps (TeamCracka)
Timing has a sweet spot where you don't want to deviate from. I know that advancing more than 4+ degrees might make more power on the dyno, but experience has taught me that the heat in the combustion chambers will be much higher than is safe. Any more power I make will be negated by the abuse I'm putting on the combustion chambers. Same can be said for retarding timing.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamCracka »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good response, so then let me ask this, how should timing be tuned? You cant sit on the dyno all day saying .... "ok at 16mm/Hg and 5700rpms, I'm gonna add +0.5 degrees ignition advance and see what happens."
</TD></TR></TABLE>
As funny as it sounds, I'll add timing until I hit the knock threshold (within reason). When I was tuning my most recent setup (the b16/jrsc) I started with a more aggressive base map, and retarded timing as necessary. I had some detonation in my 4500-5500 rpm range on the dyno (my dyno operator has a knock sensor). Since I was seeing A/F ratios of 11.5/12:1 I knew that it had to be a timing issue. I bumped timing back 1 full degree in that situation, made another run, and logged 3 less whp, but no more knocking.
The point that I'm trying to make is that I was knocking, and in an effort to stop it, I retarded a bit of timing. My egt's didn't react any differently to the change, they just stayed the same. After seeing that my ideas about egt's changed.
Sorry for coming across as a **** earlier, but this was a heated discussion at the EFI101 course I took. When a 10 year veteran tuner tells you that the egt won't react to fine changes, then you see it yourself, you begin to believe.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamCracka »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good response, so then let me ask this, how should timing be tuned? You cant sit on the dyno all day saying .... "ok at 16mm/Hg and 5700rpms, I'm gonna add +0.5 degrees ignition advance and see what happens."
</TD></TR></TABLE>
As funny as it sounds, I'll add timing until I hit the knock threshold (within reason). When I was tuning my most recent setup (the b16/jrsc) I started with a more aggressive base map, and retarded timing as necessary. I had some detonation in my 4500-5500 rpm range on the dyno (my dyno operator has a knock sensor). Since I was seeing A/F ratios of 11.5/12:1 I knew that it had to be a timing issue. I bumped timing back 1 full degree in that situation, made another run, and logged 3 less whp, but no more knocking.
The point that I'm trying to make is that I was knocking, and in an effort to stop it, I retarded a bit of timing. My egt's didn't react any differently to the change, they just stayed the same. After seeing that my ideas about egt's changed.
Sorry for coming across as a **** earlier, but this was a heated discussion at the EFI101 course I took. When a 10 year veteran tuner tells you that the egt won't react to fine changes, then you see it yourself, you begin to believe.