jlfrnce

ok i have searched and didnt find anything on here but dont have nt\et at home anymore, but i can get everything from an eclipse for free to use for turboing my teg. Does any1 know of who makes an exhuast manifold to fit a b18c1? all i want is it to spool fast but not lose power on the top end either. and be a bugdet build. i dont wanna be changing my internals just wanna build some thing reliable, cheap and around 300+ hp. i do plan on getting a S300 thou but have a vafc, chipped p28 and 255lb fuel pump already too. the kit i already have is from a/c and can sell it for what i paid so i am not loosing out when i read that they are junk!! I have the dsm 450 injectors, the box, intercooler and a couple diff turbo's from dsm with internal wastegate too but need to get a manifold thanks for any help on this every1.

MidShipCivic

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2158215

Schister66

The turbo from the Eclipse is a 14b and you'd have a damn hard time making 300whp with it. If you're going to use any stock DSM turbo, go with the twin-scroll Evo8 16g. Its a great turbo and will make the power you're looking for...Another thing, the 450cc injectors are going to be getting close to max past 300whp

jordanrw

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The turbo from the Eclipse is a 14b and you'd have a damn hard time making 300whp with it. If you're going to use any stock DSM turbo, go with the twin-scroll Evo8 16g. Its a great turbo and will make the power you're looking for...Another thing, the 450cc injectors are going to be getting close to max past 300whp</TD></TR></TABLE>
He is correct

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jordanrw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
He is correct</TD></TR></TABLE>

naturally...lol

Chaotic Neutral

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The turbo from the Eclipse is a 14b and you'd have a damn hard time making 300whp with it. If you're going to use any stock DSM turbo, go with the twin-scroll Evo8 16g. Its a great turbo and will make the power you're looking for...Another thing, the 450cc injectors are going to be getting close to max past 300whp</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless it's a 13G, or a T-25, which were the two other Eclipse turbos. In which case, you'll make even less power....so definitely go with an Evo variety.

jlfrnce

well then i think if it is gonna be too small that i should just go with the SSAC kit i already have then or should i just sell it and go with the dsm stuff? i have both everything other than the exhaust manifold for the dsm, i just want my own budget build but be reliable and fast! i know there will always be something faster too

Schister66

SSAC or DSM parts....there really isn't a good option there. If you want to build a cheap turbo setup that makes a good amount of power AND is fast...keep dreaming.

As the old quote goes "Reliable, Cheap, Fast" ...pick 2

Joseph Davis

Mitsu turbos are small shaft failure, and to be avoided. Pal around with some people that think Mitsufeces are great cars and you'll see a lot of B16G and 20G with their turbine wheels broken off and chucked into the downpipe. They simply aren't very robust.

I hear good things about the Evo8 turbo, but I never see those things on anything but slow heavy Evo8 so I have no real experience.

Schister66

The Evo8 divided 16g is a decent turbo, BUT it requires a divided manifold with a special flange in order to get the most out of it; therefore, the money saved on the turbo will be added to the price of the special manifold that nobody offers

turbodano

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mitsu turbos are small shaft failure, and to be avoided. Pal around with some people that think Mitsufeces are great cars and you'll see a lot of B16G and 20G with their turbine wheels broken off and chucked into the downpipe. They simply aren't very robust.

I hear good things about the Evo8 turbo, but I never see those things on anything but slow heavy Evo8 so I have no real experience.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct well kinda. Let me explain, The reason you are seeing shafts broken and other failures like that is due to the reason that the shaft can only go so fast. The Td05H 16g that you are talking about, the shaft size is not the issue the problem is a 505cfm or a 550 (bg16g) cfm turbo is not meant to make 375+whp and at the shaft speeds they have to run to make that happen it is just time before it fails and it will happen on any turbo that is put into that kind of service.

Joseph Davis

It won't happen to any turbo, no. I've taken several Garretts to the point they either stop making any more power as boost goes up or to the point where boost won't go up any higher - no turbo failures over a couple years of operation vs frequent failure. I'm not arguing that the Garrett powered cars I've tuned won't suffer "premature" turbo failure, my argument is that a shorter turbo lifespan is something completely different from Mitsufeces small shaft frequent failure turbo design.

Part of the Mitsufeces turbo problem is that DSM guys typically operate their cars in a knock feedback loop where all the ignition retard jacks EGTs to the moon. Mitsufeces should have done a better job of designing that family of turbos as there isn't sufficient engineering overhead to account for aceptable wear and tear in a real world environment and that shows up prominently when they undergo aftermarket abuse.

See also: K03s.

PS - I have an application in with BW.

jlfrnce

i was doing some searching and my buddy that has all this dsm parts and has an sti, has a bunch of paperwork about the 14b and it states at 21lb of boost will hit 300+ how can it ssay it will do that if you guys say it wont, i am not calling you liars or anything!!

Schister66

At the absolute edge of the compressor map, the 14b is capable of creating .22 m^3/s (466 cfm). On an extremely efficient setup, it can make 310whp, but these are computer generated numbers. Yes it may be possible to make that kind of power with the turbo, but it is going to be at the very edge of its compressor map. It will be very inefficient and moving a lot of hot air. I can't speak for the engineering aspect of the turbo, but i'd imagine you may be severely decreasing the its life.

These numbers being computer generated really dont account for the fact that the turbo may not be able to sustain the pressure ratio(s) necessary for the power you want.

Bottom Line: It is possible in theory, but in practice, its anyone's guess

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

turbodano has the right idea. The mitsubishi cartridges themselves are extremely robust compared to many companies (this is why even some of FP's models can do so well.) The problem is the DSM person themselves constantly pushing the shaft speeds to much over the limit, and expecting more results than is physically possible. yes, EGTs are going through the roof from the timing changes, but also, the IATs are so damned high because they've pushed them past their limits, that they are detonating motors when using a 14b, G, or B16G past thier point of any use. We've both had SOO many issues with DSM guys using turbos that are actually too small for their needs, and pushing them to insane points in the name of #psi of boost.

Do yourself a favor. Save the headache and bullshit with these "free" parts. There's no such thing as "free" junk. There are plenty of vendors (including myself ) that can supply the right parts at a competative price that save time and effort in ways you just can't imagine. At this rate, you can't afford NOT to take advantage of that.

eastbay92cx

200hp on a 1.5l honda the 14b is great, but as far as 300hp on a b series the rest of these guys are right. You'd be much better off and would actually be able to meet your goals with a larger turbo.

jlfrnce

what kind of goals would i be likely to get then from a dsm turbo then i see on ebdy they have manifold to fit dsm turbo. i mean i can always upgrade to a bigger setup if needed too later down the road


Modified by jlfrnce at 1:07 AM 1/5/2008