<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why is it a shame? jeff is a tuner and he has to earn money from his job... especialy ignition tuning is a very difficult thing and basicly thats what a tunes is mostly payed for. Fuel maps can be set up by a baby with enought time and some basic understanding. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ignition maps can be set up by a baby, with enough time and some basic understanding. Correct ignition timing is easier to grasp - if you ever stop to think how an engine works - than all the subtleties of implied combustion chamber AFRs based on exhaust oxygen content a couple feet outside the chamber.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reliant_turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
J. Davis, do you think that the stock Volvo/VW (Bosch) sensors are the flat response type that the Porsche one was? (from the articles at the beginning of this thread) They seem like they might be from their construction and appearance. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Someone actually read Bigmoose's site, eh? Good stuff, isn't it?

But, yeah, I do think they are flat response sensors. I'm pretty sure that has an impact on what you hear from them, but I need to eliminate possible RF signal molestation from the ignition system on mine before I make any *personal* judgement on them vs det cans.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DSeriesBKilla &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you have this one here? Checking for knock on the radiator support? Do you have pix of the "headphones"?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nah its just sitting there so i could take a pic. I dont have a pic of the headphones, but you can see them in my video.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FredoSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is that my old tial 38?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope got it from ATPturbo. Dont you love how the black ones turn purple?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DSeriesBKilla &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you have pix of the "headphones"?</TD></TR></TABLE>
here's a pic of mine...I just tuned it on a supercharged type-r w/ a 5.5psi pulley. We bolted the copper tube to a bolt hole in the back of the block, next to the oil filter. Probably between cylinders 2-3 and about half way up. I was able to hear the engine loud and clear, and suprisingly no detonation with total timing up to 24*.

 

How much timing were you able to get around 5500rpms?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much timing were you able to get around 5500rpms?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think it might have been around 22-23*, im not sure if it could have gone any higher, I thought that this might be high enough so I stopped there.

 

nice.

 

I went out and made another det can today out of copper i'm gonna use on b series blocks that need the larger bolt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nope got it from ATPturbo. Dont you love how the black ones turn purple? </TD></TR></TABLE>

because the color really is purple and just faded.
Most blacks are just dark blues or purples. cool huh

 

same exact thing happened to mine

 

yea i think it happens to all of the black ones

 

lol thanks, nice vid

 

I'm glad you like it . I like to drive with ear protectors on so i'm unaware of anything, but the engine

 

I should be getting my bosch knock sensor tomorrow... I'll endeavor to do a quick write up on the electronic format one that J.Davis was talking about.

 

yea man i'd like to see it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea man i'd like to see it </TD></TR></TABLE>

So yeah... it was uber simple to put together, but I do have alot of background static like J.Davis mentioned. I'm working with my friend (audio engineer) to figure out a way to remove that from it.

BUT... it sounds awesome... my vitaras are Fing LOUD Haven't done a test drive, just startup/idle.... no time and im outta town until next week.

I'll post a reallly really quick how-to on the basic setup... and if i find a way to reduce outside interfereance some... i'll post that later.

Oh and I should definitly be able to make recordings.

 

cant wait man

 

Ok, I figure I'll post a quick listing of parts and the text how-toish thingy before i go outta town.

You'll need just a couple parts
-Mini Amplifier with input and output. Here's the radioshack one.

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...earch
-1/8th stereo plug cable for running from the knock sensor to the amp. Radioshack also... (i suspect this for noise issues.. will probably try shielding it then going from there) I cut off the female end.

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...earch
-Bosch Knock sensor. free - 15?
Ebay or wherever, off Saabs in junkyards.

-One obd0 or obd1 injector clip with some wire on it. (plug for knock sensor)
-Headphones - free - etc...
-9v Battery - 2bucks
-solder
-soldering iron
-electrical tape

Headphones - Amp ( put battery ) - 1/8th stereo cable , cut off the female end and strip the wires. Strip injector wires... plug the injector clip into the bosch knock sensor and turn on the amp, put headphones on and hold some of the injector wires to stereo wires.... ie: trial/error on which is the proper one for most sound (tap the sensor with your finger while doing this... you'll hear it... trust me.

Once you get the correct wires, solder it up, tape it up and bolt it onto your car. On my D I found the best spot was the header brace just above the coolant drain on the front of the block.

I'll repost when I get more info about removing some of the outside interfearance.

 

thanx for the writeup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nikolai. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the common practice of tuning timing on a dyno is to add timing after peak torque until the power begins to drop, then pull out like 2-3 degrees.

this thread makes me seriously doubt the reliability of that practice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would you add timing after peak torque?

The fact its making its best torque at that ignition is a pretty good clue that cylinder pressures are in order and the combustion is taking place in a normal manner.

 

because as rpms increase the time available for the combustion event drops as well. its appropriate to increase timing advance (in most cases) to compensate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nikolai. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because as rpms increase the time available for the combustion event drops as well. its appropriate to increase timing advance (in most cases) to compensate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Also peak torque is where peak cylinder pressure occurs and is the most likely place for detonation, so timing should be retarded for peak torque. As rpm's rise after peak torque, there is less chance of detonation and you can be more aggressive with timing to stop power from falling off up top.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nikolai. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because as rpms increase the time available for the combustion event drops as well. its appropriate to increase timing advance (in most cases) to compensate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your talking out your **** arn't you? If you have found peak torque what benefit do you get from advancing ignition then simply backing it off a few degrees?

Proper dyno tuning is steady state at each rpm and load site, so you dont care for the power, just hit the sweet spot for the torque and later when you do a 'pull' the power will come naturally due to several laws of physics that exist on our planet.

Do you tune with your dissy or sommat

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LeGeND4LiFe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As rpm's rise after peak torque, there is less chance of detonation and you can be more aggressive with timing to stop power from falling off up top.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I think our disagreement is caused by the usage of the term "peak torque"

You seem to be referring to peak torque across the rpm band...i.e. peak torque curve.

I am talking about the point on the torque curve with the highest value.

And theres no need to make derogatory remarks. It's just a discussion. I never understood why people get so up set over nothing.

 

awesome info guys...i think im gonna be making myself a nice set of det cans w/ my ex's stehoscope? you know the thing the listen to your heartbeat w/....but lovein all the tech info...

any other good related articles to ignition timing?