Can you tell me where improvement can be made? Jim is open for ideas so he can improve them.

 

write it up

 

you can't mean that the same detailed rules apply to drag/autocross/road-racing/rally suspensions???...all of these would have completely different needs.

I'm sure that certain fundamentals transfer (as they're all cars) but, I'd think rather large compromises must be made to handling when designing an all-out drag car...

thus, if you're thinking about drag-racing and he's thinking about road-racing suspensions, your two ideas about geometries could be totally different.

 

FFGeoff,
I remember awhile back when questioned about the z10 bars you said that they mimicked the suspension geometry as it went through its travel almost identically. Is this not the case anymore?

Tom

 

Here is an AWFUL picture. I made a really nice dwg once before and i just spent the better part of a half hour looking for it, so heres a crappy one. It should answer all your questions, and this is the reason why the bushings wear out, ITS DESIGNED SHITTY.

Hopefully z10 will see this, and steal yet another one of my ideas. I noticed on their page that they are "innovators"... innovate my *** rob. I give it a few weeks before he fixes the jig...

 

yes i CAN mean that the same rule applies. Not ALL rules, but one simple rule and that is if your suspension binds youre suspension is designed poorly, something will break, something will eventually crack, and it will be at a very very bad time (under high loads/stresses)

trust me on this one. ive been thinking/working on these going on 3 years now.

 

geoff dont want to cause trouble but why do so many race teams use the competition engneering i know alots of them are using its messed up if you ask me.

 

becuase no one on the race teams thinks about their setups, they are lazy, just buy **** and slap it on.

Gary's car (ecko civic) is DIALED perfect geometry front end and he has gotten 1.41 60 foots.

Also with spring rates that are SUPER stiff the arms barely move. With proper suspension geometry you will go faster. Gary has had engine woes all season but if you look at his suspension, its perfect.

 

Yeah but look at venoms and many other guys out there like hp racing and others they running faster cutting some whack *** 60fts 1.3 60ft in fwd car is bad ***. I mean most guys dont have time including myself so i see where you are coming from.

 

yeah i understand where youre coming from, b/c gary paid someone to think for him, so if you dont have the money to pay a one off fab guy youre stuck with off the shelf components and thats it.

if you are in the neighborhood ever ill modify your z10 bars for you and make them work right viren.

 

hey geoff, thanks for the explanation
sorry to bug you but it did get you to do the write up (with a nice visual too)
thanks again have a on me

 

Geoff, the crx bars that Z-10 makes aren't designed bad are they? I haven't been under the car in awhile but I beleive they are the same geometry as the oem radius rods. I am building another set for my EF hatch, if they are off I will probally redesign it too, and make it right. It makes sense why the eg+ek stuff is wrong because they didn't have the rods. From your illustration I bet the Comp Eng bars would be great for rounding the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. That design is just dumb. At least your original z-10 design was better than that. Oh yeah you said you know what they were designed for, what exactly was that? Track or strip?


[Modified by CRXBart, 8:24 PM 10/16/2002]


[Modified by CRXBart, 8:27 PM 10/16/2002]

 

Those JimFab bars are cheap (on-sale thru Oct.)! $350 is damn good. Geoff, how does his design compare to your z10 design? Better? Room for improvement? Will they cause binding? I know you might not be able to tell from looking at the pictures, but I just thought I'd ask...

-Seth


[Modified by TheShocker, 8:42 PM 10/16/2002]

 

FINALLY!!!

sorry for the wait... well, I just emailed the pics i took to geoff so he can host them for me.. they should be up as soon as he gets the email and gets them online....

just so u guys know, most of the pics were taken during the fitment and pre-welding stages from under the car.. I didn't get a chance to take pics of the finished product because i had finished it at around 10 pm that night... hopefully i'll get finished pics taken when i have the chance...

 

i dont mean to be a dick, but i cant host them. That is a very dangerous setup you have there, i dont think you realize how dangerous it is to mess with suspension... if you need help making them right ill give you all the info you need, but using those materials in that way is just dangerous, sorry bro. I just dont want ppl to see those pics and think it might be a good idea to do it that way

 

EF bars are just fine, nothing wrong with that geometry at all. That was my second prototype there and its perfect. Just not as clean as the jimfab, and uses lower quality heims and material

 

I pray for someone to come up with the traction bars for DA's (90-93' Integras). Z10 posted "90-93 Integra Kit coming soon!" on their site ...and it remained a tease for years. I emailed Z10 about 20 times, never got a response from them. Z10 is a joke, thats flucked up that they used your idea.

I am willing to send CAD drawings, or parts: crossmember, & radius rods for someone to fab them. It shouldnt be that hard. DA is old but similar to EF.


[Modified by Quick 200k Mile Motor, 12:06 AM 10/17/2002]

 

Where are you located? I could build one for you but I would need the car...

 

Sweet, so I dont need to worry about these things causing binding... thanks!

-Seth

 

they jimfab setup is a BETTER crossmember than the z10 crossmember and it has perfect geometry, with no binding.

 

Here's an installed JimFab pix for your enjoyment.

 

Geoff, thanks! Im starting to understand. Ive been dying to see a pic like that.

 

Thanks Geoff, that drawing supports what I saw as the problem with the Z10 traction bars. I had similar problems with some suspension components I built for another Non-Honda related project. Hmmm, interesting.


[Modified by SLPR, 5:26 AM 10/17/2002]

 

Any idea as how the geometry will be on the new JimFab setup for the EG/DC chassis...

 

I'll let you know. Now that I know what Geoff is talking about I can let you know when my set comes in.

art