ProjectXaccord

I recently swapped over to a custom liquid to air set up, and started having a overboosting problem. nothing on my set up changed but the intercooler. I am not a amature when it comes to turbocharging, but this problem is out of my limits. I need advice from the Pros. I am kinda thinking that the exhaust housing on my turbo is now to small or the wastegate is to small now that there is no pressure drops due to the shorter diameter intercooler piping. problem came up when i switched over to the water to air setup. One last thing my motor is 11:1CR. Its funny because the tial wastegate only has a 5lbs spring in it, and i dont see how i am hitting boost cut @ 6.5 lbs.

Thanks guys




here are my setup details:

Garrett T3/ t04e stage 3 turbo ar .60 /.63
Ebay Liquid to air intercooler
tial 38mm wastagate with 5lbs spring
2"-3" hot side piping
3" cold side piping

DaveF

all that to run 5psi ?

urbansi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all that to run 5psi ? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey there is nothing wrong with playing it safe, not everoyne likes to push their setups too hard.

As for the problem i have been thinking about this for a little, your positive that nothing else changed on the setup? Maybe a vac. line came off some how durring the install? re-check the motor, it being just the intercooler throwing off boost is strange. I always start with the smallest possible solution before getting too worried.

The Lobster

he is running a pretty high compression so 5 psi is safe.

and if he wanted he can go to 10 psi which would make pretty good power

stpacura

Sorry to get off topic but.
How are the liquid to air intercooler? whats the pros and cons of this form of cooling the air. I'm in the process of building my turbo setup and I already have the yonaka intercooler(650hp one) but I've been thinking about the liquid to air intercooler for the summer weather, would it be efficient for the high temperatures of the summer?

ONCE AGAIN I'M SORRY FOR GOING OFF TOPIC HOWEVER SEEN YOUR SETUP REMIND ME.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbansi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
not everoyne
</TD></TR></TABLE>

93supercoupe

I dont see how just an IC chang would effect boost unless theres a leak.The wastegate placement isnt the greatest along with the low psi spring.

urbansi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont see how just an IC chang would effect boost unless theres a leak.The wastegate placement isnt the greatest along with the low psi spring.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wastegate positioning was the first thing i thought, but think of how much piping was eliminated when switching to the L to A.

still thinking here

ProjectXaccord

Man i am the local pro when it comes to turbo. I dont make mistakes when it comes to the wastegate signal from the turbo. but thanks for the input

ProjectXaccord

the wastegate is downstream on the on the manifold right before the turbo. i bought that manifold from a guy that was running a t67 turbo so wastegate placement isnt the issue. wastegate is opening all the way because its loud as hell. i can hear it over the turbo because it just a open dump.

I am thinking that there is no more pressure drops from the a intercooler or long piping, so the turbo doesnt have to work as hard to build boost.

i know what its a definate that the water to air setup caused this overboosting in some way.

i chose to go with a water to air setup because i can hide the intercooler, and its more efficent then a front mount. A front mount becomes a larde heat sink in the summer time when driving around town. i used to see as high as 120-130 degree F. with the water to air setup the air intake temps are much lower. i compared both datalogs with a front mount and with the liquid to air setup. the water to air setup was almost 15 degrees lower then the front mount.

the 5lbs of boost is just temperary, i need to get most of the bugs worked out before i raise the boost and retune the car.

thanks for the input guys the more the marryer

stpacura

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ProjectXaccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i chose to go with a water to air setup because i can hide the intercooler, and its more efficent then a front mount. A front mount becomes a larde heat sink in the summer time when driving around town. i used to see as high as 120-130 degree F. with the water to air setup the air intake temps are much lower. i compared both datalogs with a front mount and with the liquid to air setup. the water to air setup was almost 15 degrees lower then the front mount.

the 5lbs of boost is just temperary, i need to get most of the bugs worked out before i raise the boost and retune the car.

thanks for the input guys the more the marryer

</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do they run for price wise and for a power range of around 700hp.
This maybe a dump question but how do you feed the water and how does it cool the water?

Gold DA9

are you running the "on 3" water to air intercooler? Also I dont know if this matters but should you be pumping water through intercooler?

DisturbedK24

iTrader: (1)

so its always showing about 6.5psi on your boost gauge?

the increase in psi should be from the new intercooler becaus there is alot less pressure drop(i bet its alot more responsive too!)

i would guess it would be that with the shorter piping the boost goes to 6.5psi becaus the less pressure drop or that the pressure builds faster, or that the wastegate spring is 5psi on a "standard" turbo setup but the charge pipes are so much different now the psi bumped up a notch

forgive me im pretty tired so my words are worded so elequintley


and a liquid to air intercooler is kind of like a regular intercooler but basicaly in a short summery, water flows where the air usualy does in a completely contained unit, the liquid to air system uses a water pump that pumps water threw oil cooler sized and style cooler(to cool it down) and threw the intercooler, and into a water resivor, lots of 1/4 mile people use them becaus you can put ice in the resivor before you make a run to cool down intake temps even more, plus air flows alot more smoothley threw the smaller intercooler and it doesnt need to be exposed to air so you can put it wherever would minimize the amount of charge piping you need

also, in cars like the nsx/lotus elise/exige/other mid engine cars use them for the lack of proper mounting places for good airflow to a traditional air to air intercooler,

its good to see you using a liquid to air, on those dataloged temps did you happen to drive around on a hot day for a couple hours/sit in traffic/etc etc? i am really curious to know how it worked out for you


*edit*
and a 700hp liquid to air intercoolers are usualy pretty big(well odly shaped or just really long) just goodle "liquid to air intercooler" and you will find a few companys that make them along with sizes, they can be custom sizes, i believe pwr? makes some good presized kits

the-anti-crack

how big was your old intercooler?

you have less piping, and a smaller intercooler. my guess is that you are seeing less pressure drop.

getting a boost controller would be a good idea.

ProjectXaccord

DisturbedK24,

the dataloggs were done when it was still pretty cool outside. even then my front mount was a POS and didnt do a good job of cooling the intake charge. thats why i changed my setup. Even right now, 80 degrees outside, the pump turned off and driving around for a hour the intake temps stay at about 130 degrees F.

Anti-crack
A boost controller is not going to help right now, kinda seems like the wastegate cant keep up with the now free boosting turbo. I am going to raise the boost cut and see where boost stops at.

Yes i have a pump with a container, pump water through the system. in the photo above i wasnt finished hooking up the lines for the pump.

I still need solution to this over boosting problem. The turbo is very very responsive now and builds boost very fast and at a low RPM. I wonder if getting a bigger exhaust housing like a .81 A/R will help.

thanks for the input keep the rolling in.

timothyjherbert

i have a custom liquid intercooler kit on my ls/vtec and the car boosted fine when I had the 2.5" down pipe until the flex pipe collapsed. Then I had a custom 3" down pipe and It hit 23lbs by 5500rpms (t3 pt67 dbb) with an open dump.. Problem with this was the open dump along with the 3" down pipe cause it to work like a venturi and suck air in rather than let the exhaust out.. So I have to buy a second tial 44 and had to weld an oval hole to help get the exhaust to flow into the gates.... I dont know if this helps at all but I would def. give the car a good going over before you go ripping anything out... I have spend hundreds of dollars on the dual wg setup and I could have just routed it into the exhaust and it would have helped pulled the exhaust through the single.... hope this helps...good luck..

runsfromdacops

to me it sounds like the wast gate is to small. your asking a vary small (38mm)gate to bypass alot of ex. to try and hold that 5 psi.
and if you had a pos ic befor now you have vary sort ic piping and almost no restrictions. so now your motor is flowing more air making the wg work that much harded to stay at 5psi, now it cant keep up

Captain Bondo

Is this really that complicated?

1)Remove the Wastegate spring entirely

2)Drive the car

3)Note the boost level

If you get 6.5psi with no spring at all, basically WG always open, then you know that is the flow limit. If you able to get less, then it might be a control issue.

I would just adjust the tune accordingly and settle for 6.5 instead of 5psi.