Spoon_Nazi

i have a ctr intake cam in my gsr motor because i was going n/a.
now that im going to go darkside, im thinking about whether or not to put back the gsr intake cam or just leave the ctr cam.

im running an apexi kit (IHI ball bearing turbo) modified for b-series. 310 cc with a greddy blue box. running IC and 6-7 psi ONLY. also, just reving up to stock redline--7900-8000 rpm....if anyone could give me some advice as to what cam would be better for my setup. thanks

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

hahah that sounds like a killer street setup that will spool at like about 2300-2500rpms and will not die out at all on the topend.

you'll love it bro. I'm a huge fan of smaller turbos for daily driven mild boost setup. That turbo is capable of pulling some decent number and the best part is that you don't have to wait til 3500rpms like t3t4s.
6-7psi with a greddy blue box and 310cc would be the max about you cound run with those injectors. At 6-7psi you should see about 200-220whp and 150-160tq. Get that **** tuned with hondata and and you'll see numbers like 240whp and 180tq at 7psi. Like night and day differece bro because even though your running very safe with the blue box your also running freaken like a 10.4 to 11.4 a/r ratio which is killing your throttle respone and power band.

GSR cams hands down
I hope the other guys don't flame the hell out of you for that questions.
You might beable to adjust the cam gear and overlap it so it's not too bad but getting stock GSR cams in there will make more power hands down.

anyone who with a dohc vtec boost car is mostliky running their stock cams or GSR cams......

GSR cams = best turbo cam that is cheap and proven.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

anyone want to back me up?

pennies_hatchie

iTrader: (1)

bump..
i want to hear more

ekb18c

if you search the answers will come........


more hp? Type R cams!

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekb18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you search the answers will come........


more hp? Type R cams! </TD></TR></TABLE>

for boost?.... WTF, all the turbo guys, FFgeoff, Sonny, Arturbo, Tony1 all told me to stick with GSR cams on both side because they will yeild the best power curve and also you will not have to worry about "dailing out the overlap" ...... please let me know why ITR cams would make more power...?


I saw a guy here boosting 13psi on a stock ITR, when he switch out to GSR cams he made like 15 more whp and the powerband was way smoother.

SIXTYdashONE

Everyone has their own little formulated opinion on this, if you go ask 10 tuners this question, you will get a 5-5 split mixed review and lots of different opinions and theories. I run gsr cams, but was always tempted to do some dyno pulls with itr cams, as my tuner told me to do... any other comments?

ekb18c

because of more duration and lift

SIXTYdashONE

Yeah, basically.. Goes right to the old theory of more lift = more air.. More air = more power.

ekb18c

more air == more power, why else would we throw on a turbo charger onto our cars? Because it "force feeds" air into our motors.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

yeah but when your boosting your trying to keep as much air the cumbustuion chamber as possbile during the burn to create more power.

if you have a cam like CTR,skunk, toda, jun cams no matter what stage it was it would fucken suck ***** because when your trying to build up boost,....your cams with the higher "lift" are opening way to fast and soon for that extra pressuried air to say in there long enough to even hold the correct boost and the correct burn. You would have to dail out the cams so that they do no overlap as much.


Are you guys saying that if I build a 185whp B18c5 with Jun3 cams and stock compression I can just simply slap on a turbo kit and expecet to have excellent gains ontop of that 185whp from my cams ............. if that is correct I would have to say that the FI form here has completely taught me differently...


...JUN3 cams,...if higher lift and duration cams are better than boost.... why aren't pro or 12/13 sec boosted B16a, B18c motors running them in there BOOSTED setup?

ekb18c

Offcourse too much lift is not good but from my experience type r cams seem to have the right specs for boost cars (Street and strip).

We are talking about type r cams here not jun 3 or toda spec c cams. Those cams are totally geared toward NA applications.

Blah, blah, blah over lap this and over lap that.. blah blah blah..

Have you seem some of the cams "Pro's" run? Have you seem some custom cams that some "Pro's" are running? Believe me when I tell that some of those cams are pretty outrageous. Even if you have saw some of the cams, no one will tell you the exact specs of their cams. I had to pull teeth to get someone to reveal the specs of their custom crane cams and I still dont think he gave me the correct specs.

Killer_B

i've tried B16, GSR & CTR Intake cams with a GSR exhaust cam in a boosted stock B16 and now my built GSR block. the car is not tuned yet BUT the CTR gave me better results by far ! when my motor hits Vtec with the CTR cam it feels like an 80 shot of nitrous, besides that it seems to pull much harder through the entire power band.

no offense Charlie Moua but you sound like the typical HT guy. speaks a lot about theory & makes 100 suggestions without actually applying it, thats why i don't come on this site too much.

pennies_hatchie

iTrader: (1)

so since he's only boosting up to stock rev limit (8000 rpm or so) and boosting 6-7 psi, wouldnt the ctr cam help more than the gsr since you're not going over the ctr power band?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killer_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've tried B16, GSR & CTR Intake cams with a GSR exhaust cam in a boosted stock B16 and now my built GSR block. the car is not tuned yet BUT the CTR gave me better results by far ! when my motor hits Vtec with the CTR cam it feels like an 80 shot of nitrous, besides that it seems to pull much harder through the entire power band.

no offense Charlie Moua but you sound like the typical HT guy. speaks a lot about theory & makes 100 suggestions without actually applying it, thats why i don't come on this site too much.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no offence taken...... it's just that we all learn from different people. Are you guys stating facts for theories just like me?
you say CTR cams will make your boosted car feel like a 80 shot of nos..... are you setting you vtec at the right spot? vtec will feel slightly better with ctr cams on a boosted motor but what does the power band look like on a dyno?........

don't feed minds any BS about what things FEELS like unless you have dyno results.

Killer_B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no offence taken...... it's just that we all learn from different people. Are you guys stating facts for theories just like me?
you say CTR cams will make your boosted car feel like a 80 shot of nos..... are you setting you vtec at the right spot? vtec will feel slightly better with ctr cams on a boosted motor but what does the power band look like on a dyno?........

don't feed minds any BS about what things FEELS like unless you have dyno results.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


feel = experienced.

i set my Vtec corssover at 5,500 where i get the best *response* from the motor. i played with the corssover point with the other cams too. the CTR has been the best so far.

do you have proof that the "PRO's" are using GSR cams ? that seems like BS. i heard they use huge cams like JUN 3's and such. do you really think that they would let the cat out of the bag? doubt it !

boosted3g

ctr cams reside in my turbo motor.

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

for boost?.... WTF, all the turbo guys, FFgeoff, Sonny, Arturbo, Tony1 all told me to stick with GSR cams on both side because they will yeild the best power curve and also you will not have to worry about "dailing out the overlap" ...... please let me know why ITR cams would make more power...?

I saw a guy here boosting 13psi on a stock ITR, when he switch out to GSR cams he made like 15 more whp and the powerband was way smoother. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well me and Tony1 have talked about my setup and he told to GET RID OF THE B16A cams they are holding me bakc for MY SET UP he recommended ITR cams!!!!!!!!!! He had done some recent testing and these wroked well. Keep in mine he SAID for MY SET UP I WOULD want ITR cams. FFgeoff likes GSR cams. As Ron said ask 10 tuners and you will get a 5 and 5 split for each. I too wanted to dyno test my Si cams versus ITR cams. Another combo is a GSR intake cam with an ITR exhaust cam I heard works well.

ekb18c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


don't feed minds any BS about what things FEELS like unless you have dyno results.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ditto...


edit :
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your cams with the higher "lift" are opening way to fast and soon for that extra pressuried air to say in there long enough to even hold the correct boost and the correct burn. You would have to dail out the cams so that they do no overlap as much.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

"higher lift" cams don't necessarily dictate the behavior of the duration, so it won't "open way too fast and soon". Duration governs those functions. ITR cams work well with turbo set-ups due to it's combination of high lift and moderate duration (as compared to GSR cams) . Naturally aspirated cams are traditionally made with more consideration paid to duration, because of it's high reving nature, the longer duration works in its favor. The same is not true for turbo applications in which higher lift would be ideal, so at the end of it all, just keep one thing in mind - which cam has a higher lift - ITR or GSR, and in both cases does either of the two cams have a longer than normal duration? seems to me that the obvious answer is that the ITR cams with its higher lift would be a better choice for turbo applications. In both cases the duration is moderate so that factor will have no ill effects on turbo set-ups. Having tried both cams (GSR and ITR) I can definitely vouch for the ITR cams working better on my turbo set-up.


Wanna see what the power band looks like? Here is my dyno plot.

Look at the linear plot(blue). That was 4th gear pull. The rest were me going through the gears on WOT on a clayton dyno.

vtec set at 5,000 rpm




Modified by ekb18c at 2:27 PM 10/10/2003

SIXTYdashONE

Im definately going to try out ITR cams in my motor soon. I will show dyno plots if i remember, hehe

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIXTYdashONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im definately going to try out ITR cams in my motor soon. I will show dyno plots if i remember, hehe</TD></TR></TABLE>

what cams to you have right now?


Sorry about that guys. I know that the PRO' 7-9sec run their own special cam specs. I was reffering to the 11-13 second guys who make great power with OEM cams. lets keep this down to only the 400 or less whp applications.

I really want to find out the truth about, dail out cams, blow by ect....
any more info would be greatly appreciated.

SIXTYdashONE

I run gsr cams... I would like to test ITR cams out from my tuners advice.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIXTYdashONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run gsr cams... I would like to test ITR cams out from my tuners advice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what power do you make at what boost leve and turbo?
do you think your would gain more topend or better power throught the entire powerband?

i remeber like last year i asked this question on a setup and everyone was telling me to stay away from ctr cams