Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need
10-15-2005, 06:59 AM
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Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need
Ok i'm starting to piece together a turbo kit for my ls and i'm beginning to address the issure of fuel management. I do not have money for AEM EMS or Hondata or anything of that nature and there is no way i'll run an fmu.
So i'm leaning towards crome or uberdata, but i can't decide which. Are they very similiar to the point where it's just tuner preference? or does one have advantages over the other?
My next guestion is what do i need to run either one? i found this http://www.xenocron.com/produc...gkits but would that be all i would need to chip my ecu for crome or uberdata?
And my last question would be on my fuel system.What size injectors should i go with? My goal is 250-270hp and i read somewhere that 450cc's would be just fine for that. Would i need to upgrade my fuel pump or fuel rail or get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
Thanks for any help
So i'm leaning towards crome or uberdata, but i can't decide which. Are they very similiar to the point where it's just tuner preference? or does one have advantages over the other?
My next guestion is what do i need to run either one? i found this http://www.xenocron.com/produc...gkits but would that be all i would need to chip my ecu for crome or uberdata?
And my last question would be on my fuel system.What size injectors should i go with? My goal is 250-270hp and i read somewhere that 450cc's would be just fine for that. Would i need to upgrade my fuel pump or fuel rail or get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
Thanks for any help
10-15-2005, 07:24 AM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (CivicVX94)
Here is a price list I put together a while back. I used to use Uberdata but now I use CromePRO. Crome is definately easier to work with then UD.
-$15 Socketing and chipping supplies http://www.moates.net
-$25 ECU socketing service http://www.moates.net
-$10-$45 solder in datalogging cable
-$55-$85 ROM (chip) burner (ebay, Willem Enhanced or Moates, BURN1)
Then of course here are some other things you'll probably want to get if you dont already have it:
-$50-$340 bigger injectors (DSM 450cc = $50 used, new RC injectors $279-$340)
-$20 resistor box for the DSM 450's since they are peak and hold
-$99 bigger fuel pump (ie. Walbro 255lph)
-laptop to run Crome, or Uberdata program
And here is some other optional stuff, that isn't really necessary but it will make tuning a lot easier. You can buy them for yourself, or borrow them from a friend, local or your tuner:
-$300-$330 Wideband O2 setup (Innovative LM1, PLX-300) you might wanna stay away from Zeitronix WBO2 setups though.
-$175 Ostrich Emulator (allows you to tune in realtime)
If you want to learn more about that stuff check out http://www.pgmfi.org
Also check out this thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1341220
-$15 Socketing and chipping supplies http://www.moates.net
-$25 ECU socketing service http://www.moates.net
-$10-$45 solder in datalogging cable
-$55-$85 ROM (chip) burner (ebay, Willem Enhanced or Moates, BURN1)
Then of course here are some other things you'll probably want to get if you dont already have it:
-$50-$340 bigger injectors (DSM 450cc = $50 used, new RC injectors $279-$340)
-$20 resistor box for the DSM 450's since they are peak and hold
-$99 bigger fuel pump (ie. Walbro 255lph)
-laptop to run Crome, or Uberdata program
And here is some other optional stuff, that isn't really necessary but it will make tuning a lot easier. You can buy them for yourself, or borrow them from a friend, local or your tuner:
-$300-$330 Wideband O2 setup (Innovative LM1, PLX-300) you might wanna stay away from Zeitronix WBO2 setups though.
-$175 Ostrich Emulator (allows you to tune in realtime)
If you want to learn more about that stuff check out http://www.pgmfi.org
Also check out this thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1341220
10-15-2005, 08:28 AM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (BlueShadow)
^ Pretty much sums it up.
I'm running uberdata on my D16Z6-T. Works fine for me. I looked at crome, but I was used to Uber so it made it hard for me to play around with.
The Ostrich isn't necessary, but it would be nice to have (I'm on a budget, so I don't have one.)
I got a PLX M-300 wideband from ben@importparts.com for $310 shipped.
I'm running uberdata on my D16Z6-T. Works fine for me. I looked at crome, but I was used to Uber so it made it hard for me to play around with.
The Ostrich isn't necessary, but it would be nice to have (I'm on a budget, so I don't have one.)
I got a PLX M-300 wideband from ben@importparts.com for $310 shipped.
10-15-2005, 10:53 AM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (CivicVX94)
I say crome all the way. I have a 2000 Si and i have a built b16a with boost and i absolutely love crome. adspeed has a forum my car pics are in appearance and cosmetics!!! Hope this helps man...
10-15-2005, 11:45 AM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (built_boostedsi)
10-15-2005, 12:06 PM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (BlueShadow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-$300-$330 Wideband O2 setup (Innovative LM1, PLX-300) you might wanna stay away from Zeitronix WBO2 setups though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
whats wrong with the zeitronix wideband? I was actually planning on buying one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
whats wrong with the zeitronix wideband? I was actually planning on buying one.
10-15-2005, 01:53 PM
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Re: Crome or Uberdata? and what do i need (See Are X)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by See Are X »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
whats wrong with the zeitronix wideband? I was actually planning on buying one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's because the voltage to AFR output conversion is a parabolic output. Most other widebands have a linear voltage to AFR. Since it is linear you can easily calculate what the different O2 sensor voltages equal in AFR. For the parabolic curve you cant just calculate what the voltage equals in AFR, it's not that simple. The way most people have gotten the Zt2 to work is by trial and error. While the Zt2 is recording AFR's they measure how much voltage the O2 sensor is outputting and they match that up with the AFR reading they have. I think that's how bigwig got the conversion for the Zt2 so it could be used with UD. So right now UD might have the Zt2 supported but I wouldn't trust the voltage to AFR conversion numbers. And last time I checked Crome, and Hondata dont support the Zt2 at all. If you plan on using the Zt2's datalogging software and hardware, then all the stuff I just talked about doesn't matter.
EDIT: I was just told by a really good source that Neptune does in fact work with the Zt2.
flip1199,
That burner should work, but I dont like how you have to manually place a jumper in the chip slots to be able to burn 29C256 chips. Also I'm not sure how well customer or software support is for the Willem Enhanced. I guess since there are a lot of other people out there that use it you can sort of rely on them for support.
Modified by BlueShadow at 8:46 PM 10/16/2005
whats wrong with the zeitronix wideband? I was actually planning on buying one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's because the voltage to AFR output conversion is a parabolic output. Most other widebands have a linear voltage to AFR. Since it is linear you can easily calculate what the different O2 sensor voltages equal in AFR. For the parabolic curve you cant just calculate what the voltage equals in AFR, it's not that simple. The way most people have gotten the Zt2 to work is by trial and error. While the Zt2 is recording AFR's they measure how much voltage the O2 sensor is outputting and they match that up with the AFR reading they have. I think that's how bigwig got the conversion for the Zt2 so it could be used with UD. So right now UD might have the Zt2 supported but I wouldn't trust the voltage to AFR conversion numbers. And last time I checked Crome, and Hondata dont support the Zt2 at all. If you plan on using the Zt2's datalogging software and hardware, then all the stuff I just talked about doesn't matter.
EDIT: I was just told by a really good source that Neptune does in fact work with the Zt2.
flip1199,
That burner should work, but I dont like how you have to manually place a jumper in the chip slots to be able to burn 29C256 chips. Also I'm not sure how well customer or software support is for the Willem Enhanced. I guess since there are a lot of other people out there that use it you can sort of rely on them for support.
Modified by BlueShadow at 8:46 PM 10/16/2005
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10-16-2005, 04:06 PM
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wow thanks for your help everyone that pretty much answered all my questions.The only one i have now is it necessary to get a laptop to run uberdata or crome?Or do they have any data logging abilities? Also i've heard you could use a palm pilot in place of a laptop, would this work if a laptop is necessary? thanks again.
also this will be tuned on Raceline's dyno here in cincinnati, i haven't talked to them yet but i'd assume they would have a wideband to use?
also this will be tuned on Raceline's dyno here in cincinnati, i haven't talked to them yet but i'd assume they would have a wideband to use?
10-16-2005, 04:24 PM
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Re: (CivicVX94)
You don't need a laptop. You do need a laptop/desktop w/ the program and burner program installed.
If you're doing it on a dyno you won't need a laptop. Uber has datalogging. Crome has datalogging, but in the paid version.
If you have an extra $175 I would get the ostritch (sp). It allows you to change the fuel/ignition maps w/ the car running. You install the ostritch and plug it into a laptop. You make a run/pull and then change the map on your laptop and then transfer it to the ostritch. You don't have to let it cool down or pull the chip after each run.
If you're doing it on a dyno you won't need a laptop. Uber has datalogging. Crome has datalogging, but in the paid version.
If you have an extra $175 I would get the ostritch (sp). It allows you to change the fuel/ignition maps w/ the car running. You install the ostritch and plug it into a laptop. You make a run/pull and then change the map on your laptop and then transfer it to the ostritch. You don't have to let it cool down or pull the chip after each run.
10-16-2005, 05:03 PM
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ive used both Uber and Crome, and i have to say i like Crome a lot better. even though the Pro version costs money.
i found that Uber has too many compatibility problems, but with CromePro i was able to get everything up and running within 10 minutes. datalogging and RTP and had a good base tune in a matter of half an hour.
I think the $150 was well worth supporting such a good working program
i found that Uber has too many compatibility problems, but with CromePro i was able to get everything up and running within 10 minutes. datalogging and RTP and had a good base tune in a matter of half an hour.
I think the $150 was well worth supporting such a good working program
10-16-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: (CivicVX94)
Uberdata's datalogging is kinda a PITA to work with last time I checked. CromeFREE doesn't have any datalogging, but you can download freeware datalogging programs. I think there is one called ECU control.
I also looked into using a palm pilot or pocket PC for datalogging, but I kinda lost interest in researching that. You can ask John Cui the maker of Crome and see if it can run on something other then a laptop or PC. If not then you should be able to get a new low end Dell laptop for $499. you would just need to ask around to see if the processor and RAM would be enough to run Crome/UD.
I also looked into using a palm pilot or pocket PC for datalogging, but I kinda lost interest in researching that. You can ask John Cui the maker of Crome and see if it can run on something other then a laptop or PC. If not then you should be able to get a new low end Dell laptop for $499. you would just need to ask around to see if the processor and RAM would be enough to run Crome/UD.
10-16-2005, 08:01 PM
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Re: (nota-eg)
hmmm.. looks like i might have to cough up the 85 bucks to get the burn1 so i can tune my car myself until neptune rtp comes out of course.. 
10-16-2005, 08:07 PM
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Re: (nota-eg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota-eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much does the full version of crome run?
If I can ever get over the color differences in their fuel maps I may switch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hehehe, Trust me the color difference bothered me at first. but eventually I didn't like how Uberdata had that "DOS" feel to it. Crome feels a lot more like a Windows program. you can also cut and paste with shortcuts or with the mouse only. There's the free version, then there is the PRO version which is $149, and the DEALER version is $450. The dealer allows you to use the software for profit, and the PRO version has a bunch of extra features.
http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewfor...ee2db
If I can ever get over the color differences in their fuel maps I may switch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hehehe, Trust me the color difference bothered me at first. but eventually I didn't like how Uberdata had that "DOS" feel to it. Crome feels a lot more like a Windows program. you can also cut and paste with shortcuts or with the mouse only. There's the free version, then there is the PRO version which is $149, and the DEALER version is $450. The dealer allows you to use the software for profit, and the PRO version has a bunch of extra features.
http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewfor...ee2db
10-16-2005, 08:20 PM
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Re: (BlueShadow)
Does anyone know if Crome is gonna be offered as a package like with a wideband, maybe the Ostrich, and CromePro?? Seems like a good idea since most of us DIY tuners are gonna get all that stuff anyways, and plus we like to save money.
10-18-2005, 04:52 PM
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Re: (Ti3d in)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ti3d in »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone know if Crome is gonna be offered as a package like with a wideband, maybe the Ostrich, and CromePro?? Seems like a good idea since most of us DIY tuners are gonna get all that stuff anyways, and plus we like to save money. </TD></TR></TABLE>http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=6773
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johncui »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also put together my recommended tuning package to try to compete with the Hondata s300 system and I think it's a really good deal.
Crome Pro license: 149 USD
Moates.net Ostrich for RTP: 175 USD
Moates.net Hondalog for Datalogging: 30 USD
Innovate LC-1 Wideband+Controller: 199 USD
For a total of: 553 USD
This is 42 USD less than the price of Hondata s300, but this is a complete setup with a wideband O2 ready for tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=6773<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johncui »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also put together my recommended tuning package to try to compete with the Hondata s300 system and I think it's a really good deal.
Crome Pro license: 149 USD
Moates.net Ostrich for RTP: 175 USD
Moates.net Hondalog for Datalogging: 30 USD
Innovate LC-1 Wideband+Controller: 199 USD
For a total of: 553 USD
This is 42 USD less than the price of Hondata s300, but this is a complete setup with a wideband O2 ready for tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-18-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: (ryan89crx)
Can you use the ostritch with the freeware version of Crome?
I've been trying to install crome correctly with the plugins, but I had it installed already and I can't tell where I'm supposed to install it.
I think I'm going to remove all traces of crome and install it from the beginning.
I've been trying to install crome correctly with the plugins, but I had it installed already and I can't tell where I'm supposed to install it.
I think I'm going to remove all traces of crome and install it from the beginning.
10-18-2005, 05:05 PM
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Re: (nota-eg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota-eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you use the ostritch with the freeware version of Crome?</TD></TR></TABLE>yes you can, but you will have to use a different program for datalogging, since the freeware version doesnt have that. http://www.tunewithcrome.com/
10-18-2005, 05:12 PM
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Re: (93turbo16)
Man, I can't get the plugins to work. I completely deleted crome, including the .zip file, and then redownloaded it. I unzipped it to .../crome/
I went to install it and installed it in the folder .../crome/CROME because there was no "plugins" folder in the .../crome folder.
So I thought it was something I was supposed to do after I installed it. Can't find addextentions.zip or whatever.
Is that only for the older version? I downloaded the most recent version on the website.
I went to install it and installed it in the folder .../crome/CROME because there was no "plugins" folder in the .../crome folder.
So I thought it was something I was supposed to do after I installed it. Can't find addextentions.zip or whatever.
Is that only for the older version? I downloaded the most recent version on the website.
10-18-2005, 05:21 PM
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Re: (nota-eg)
i noticed with the most recetn version of crome (free) it doesnt have p28 support for alot of the plugins, just p30 and p72, i was looking into crome pro but i wasnt certain everything would work for the p28, that didnt make sense though because of how many people are using crome w/o any issues.
Also if you purchase the pro version what happens when there is a new updated version of crome? do you have to keep the older version or what? My uberdata has been giving me **** recently and i know crome will work so imight shell out the cash into something i know will work w/o glitches and major problems
Also if you purchase the pro version what happens when there is a new updated version of crome? do you have to keep the older version or what? My uberdata has been giving me **** recently and i know crome will work so imight shell out the cash into something i know will work w/o glitches and major problems
10-18-2005, 05:25 PM
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Re: (Soccerking3000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i noticed with the most recetn version of crome (free) it doesnt have p28 support for alot of the plugins, just p30 and p72, i was looking into crome pro but i wasnt certain everything would work for the p28, that didnt make sense though because of how many people are using crome w/o any issues.
Also if you purchase the pro version what happens when there is a new updated version of crome? do you have to keep the older version or what? My uberdata has been giving me **** recently and i know crome will work so imight shell out the cash into something i know will work w/o glitches and major problems </TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe that's what it is. I can't even figure out how to change my injector size with crome. I'm using the P28.bin
Also if you purchase the pro version what happens when there is a new updated version of crome? do you have to keep the older version or what? My uberdata has been giving me **** recently and i know crome will work so imight shell out the cash into something i know will work w/o glitches and major problems
</TD></TR></TABLE>Maybe that's what it is. I can't even figure out how to change my injector size with crome. I'm using the P28.bin