<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OEM gasket, ARP studs, and coppa spray....... 15 psi BEATEN... No leaks.....

I rock it, and woulkd rock it asgain if (as mentioned above) you are "fgreshening up" a motor with some hours on it. A propperly machined (freshly machined" set of surfaces would deem it unnessecary IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

have never put anything on my decks from 200hp motors to 1200hp motors. If a motor is properly machined, you should not have problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

have never put anything on my decks from 200hp motors to 1200hp motors. If a motor is properly machined, you should not have problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As i mentioned.... a freshly machined job (correctly) I agree..... my motor had 150k miles on it....It worked. Id do it again, but nmot on a fresh motor, it SHOULDNT be neccessary.

Jesus, my typing is horrific.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Key words in these posts , SHOULDNT Yes in a perfect world things work out for th ebest but in reality sometimes not everythign is perfect and even a well machined surface still needs a little loving too

 

permatex sells ultra grey but for motor cycles. i bought it once by accident and its super super thin. if you apply too much it will run all over the place. is this the permatex version of the yamabond? kinda like ultra grey is their version of the hondabond?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cant find honda bond here</TD></TR></TABLE> two words... HONDA DEALER.. It runs like 35ish bucks for a tube. I think the dude cut me a deal once and sold it to me for 20 bucks heh.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In those cases, we use a blue spray tac that acts like glue. We don't want copper particles spoiling a perfectly flat match.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have a link to that product?

In the bmw camp, this argument is brought up almost weekly with no real conclusive evidence other than Cometic directly recomends against it. The reason I inquire about the 'glue' like spray, is that the crazy Norwegian guys with 8second cars are recomending Loctite 3020 in leu of the copper stuff. Any input on that idea?


Also in terms of the copper messing with teh finish...do you think torquing merely torqueing the head down is enough to throw off the finish with the copper spray? I've already torqued my head down, but not fired the motor, and I'm thinking of giving the Loctite idea a go.

 

I used the copper stuff one time on a OEM single layer gasket on a high compression all motor setup. never had a problem with leaks :shrugs:

 

copper spray is good stuff for the right application. It does how ever NOT belong ona honda, nissa, toyota, or subaru Headgasket. It can actually cause it ti leak or cause there to be difference in gapage in certian points and this coudl eventually leade to premature failure. No real hond aengine builder in the world will use any kind of spray on a honda headgasket. The reason 90% all new failures (installing a new gasket and it leaks shortly after) is install error. the block must be checked for trueness and it has to be perfect, the head the sake. if they are off, they need to be resurfaced. that's all there is too it. also make sure you tighten the studs in the proper order. not doing so can result in warped head or ruined gasket.

good luck

 

yeah i agree with you, i use it on my my HG and i love it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiKid86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> two words... HONDA DEALER.. It runs like 35ish bucks for a tube. I think the dude cut me a deal once and sold it to me for 20 bucks heh. </TD></TR></TABLE>
have you looked at my location?
everything I try to find for a car here is almost next to impossible. if its not listed by vin numbers Germans dont have it, and if they do have it, its gonna cost over 80% more than it cost in the states, even if its a German made product. there are no shops like autozone and pepboys here, you have ATU and stahlgruber, and they only order stuff buy vin number. the honda dealer here are useless, and clueless, so unless majestic honda sells it and will ship it I wont buy it here.
I've heard of one dealer here that stocks it, but thats because he has Americans working for him, and they are 3 hours away, not worth it at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oscarmayer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">copper spray is good stuff for the right application. It does how ever NOT belong ona honda, nissa, toyota, or subaru Headgasket. It can actually cause it ti leak or cause there to be difference in gapage in certian points and this coudl eventually leade to premature failure. No real hond aengine builder in the world will use any kind of spray on a honda headgasket. The reason 90% all new failures (installing a new gasket and it leaks shortly after) is install error. the block must be checked for trueness and it has to be perfect, the head the sake. if they are off, they need to be resurfaced. that's all there is too it. also make sure you tighten the studs in the proper order. not doing so can result in warped head or ruined gasket.

good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

100% FACT! And to those who called bs saying that in a PERFECT world stuff leaks. Well yes! back to what I said when it is machined the right way. I guarantee you half the time it works is when your fixing something that was wrong in the first place...or the people who are bypassing the process of having the surfacing process done. In my PERFECT world I see clean! surfaced! motors with nothing......I see F1 cars running insane compression numbers using NO head gaskets at all. But hey ...you guys can keep building the same way you build...and this is not even the beginning of half the **** I see on this website.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man seriously if you want good info on how to build a motor don't come here...well let me rephrase that....you could probably learn about 60% of the basics of "how to" here on h-t but no for true engine building. You would pick up more bad info than good quality expert engine tips. Go hang out on speed talk.com and read read read. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh, that's odd because even the people I spoke to at Cometic say to use copper spray.

I guess you are just way out of our league, or all talk. Probably the latter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yamabond 5 works much better for the corners, i even had my HG leak in the corner with copper spray and both my head and block were machined true. Hondas just like to leak in the damn corners LOL. if the copper works for you awesome but if you still have that problem try the yamabond5 </TD></TR></TABLE>

is yamabond red colored?

 

I've had good experience with copper spray on a head gasket, and I am gonna use it again, I even reused a head gasket after spaying it with copper spray still hold 20psi and a lot of abuse daily driven

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

100% FACT! And to those who called bs saying that in a PERFECT world stuff leaks. Well yes! back to what I said when it is machined the right way. I guarantee you half the time it works is when your fixing something that was wrong in the first place...or the people who are bypassing the process of having the surfacing process done. In my PERFECT world I see clean! surfaced! motors with nothing......I see F1 cars running insane compression numbers using NO head gaskets at all. But hey ...you guys can keep building the same way you build...and this is not even the beginning of half the **** I see on this website. </TD></TR></TABLE>Since you are clearly smarter than everyone else here, please share your knowledge as to specifically why copper spray does not work in your perfect world.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

is yamabond red colored?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No sir, yamabond is black and smells liek model glue and is a very thin consistancy.

 

i use it but not on a headgasket..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since you are clearly smarter than everyone else here, please share your knowledge as to specifically why copper spray does not work in your perfect world.</TD></TR></TABLE>

4yrs engineering school
2yrs automotive machining
1 yr NDT testing

First off you have to understand what kinda gaskets there are...and how they work. They seal high combustion pressures, keep low fluids in and out of the cooling system, or help muffle noise. They also act as a shim and compensate for manufacturing tolerances. What...a head gasket is a spacer?? Yep! For those of you who don't know your head moves around allll the time along with your gasket. That's why gasket material is softer then your head and your block(in our case its soft in the middle). Aluminum on aluminum is bad bad bad we learned that in hseries motors with aluminum pistons 101(thought i would just put that in h-t talk for ya). Now...because the head grows more quickly than the block, the mating surfaces slip and slide on the gasket, making it difficult for the head gasket to perform its sealing duties. On motors with aftermarket sleeves like mine in particular GE your head tends to bow to the center of the block. That's why you see O-ringed blocks the ring sits higher on the cylinder taking up the extra clearance. On some blocks its different..the sleeves sit higher. Now...the question isn't how does copper gasket spray NOT work in my world but how DOES it work ?

And don't take offense to this Earl I want to simply talk theory with you! We are all here to learn

 

0yrs engineering school
0yrs automotive machining
0 yr NDT testing
Too many years of experience

Buzzzz....Sorry, in-correct....maybe in the V-8 world but not for imports.
If a head or gasket is allowed to move, it will destroy itself. That is one of the purposes of dowel pins in the head. Good head studs help to keep the head in place also.
Honda uses a multi layer steel gasket. It is harder than the aluminum block and heads it seals. You do not want to encourage any kind of movement with a soft middle.
Aluminum in the top of the block expands at the exact same rate as aluminum from the head. Same aluminum and same heat source.
There is an SAE paper written on sealing aluminum blocks to aluminum heads. O-rings are definitely not reccommended. The best seal (and best heat transfer), per SAE, is to make your surfaces to a mirror finish.
Finally, you never want sleeves above the deck. On certain combination, this can cause the head to warp during installation, sometimes enough to unseat the valves slightly.

 

i used it on my Cometic when i replaced the a6 paper HG. ill see how it works out this weekend when i get the motor back in the car

 

In my experience...the only thing any kind of adhesive is good for is helping seal water.

 

no head is stationary even with dowels Cosworth proved this. Dowels help them out allot...but the head still moves..and yes you are right about the mirror finish. Its exactly what I stated earlier. However if you don't have this finish and the surfaces are too rough THEN it won't allow the gasket to slip, instead it will grab and cause premature failure. Im pretty sure I've bought and read the same paper your talking about. Im sure when they talk about 0-rings are not recommended it must be under certain circumstances. Gaskets have o-rings its part of the whole process of sealing. It would also mean that F1 has been building motors wrong for the past ten years...they don't even use gaskets....just a nitrogen o-ring. I do believe that alot of gasket problems tend to lead to user error. Not so much the users fault but the tooling. I've seen a test done with a $10,000 torque wrench that was hooked up to a monitor that displayed torque graph of each bolt with color graph. The data was recorded by a very expensive and state of the art headgasket that was used for this one thing. They torqued heads down with your common parts store wrench...even a craftsman...none of the bolts/studs were even close to each other. Snap-on was the best out of them all but far from best.

 

Yeah, you are talking about cooper rings. The hotter they get, the better they seal. We have done a couple of motors with them but they are way beyond the technologgy of most every one and are only for extreme boost motors. They need receiver grooves and we use them on sealed blocks with no coolant transfers between the block and head. No head gasket necessary.

 

i follow Earl's advice. hes been helping me build my motor

 

I wasn't doing therory in my statement. I have actually expirneced the stuff cause a leak (when sprayed there as a tiny big drop near a water port and when it dried prior to install (few minutes) we installed the gasket shrotly after installing the turbo kit it start leafing water into the manifold. so that's real life personal expirences.

on my motor we decked the block and head and use nothing and it works perfectly. not a single issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oscarmayer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wasn't doing therory in my statement. I have actually expirneced the stuff cause a leak (when sprayed there as a tiny big drop near a water port and when it dried prior to install (few minutes) we installed the gasket shrotly after installing the turbo kit it start leafing water into the manifold. so that's real life personal expirences.

on my motor we decked the block and head and use nothing and it works perfectly. not a single issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So because you don't know how to use a spray can you're blaming it on the copper spray?