Nice stuff there Rocket! How is the durability of the unsprung 6 puck disc?

 

Durability of the un-sprung hub is high with the Miba sintered iron metallic pucks. They last for 2.5+ years and counting in heavy duty usage in teen-agers cars out here in Santa Clarita, CA.

 

Very good post topic and info ! TTMFT !
I see you noted the durability of the Kevlar done clutches and the pic of the sprung 6 is nice...

I have a stock LS clutch that I had re-sheathed in Kevlar (w/ metallic backing) so it's a sprung 4. After breaking in, I have had the clutch for over 3K miles and it is by and far the BEST feeling and functioning clutch I have felt. I previously had a CM stage 5 w/ PP, but dumped it and kept the PP with the kevlar'd stock clutch. What is your opinion on this fairly low-budget option ? $165 for the kevlar'd clutch disc. Plus I had the flywheel notched slightly to help engagement. From the performance I have witnessed thus far, I think it would be a great alternative to an aftermarket clutch and if it lasts nearly as long as they said it would... it's my choice for a high HP daily driver, hands down ! Opinions ?

X2

 

The Kevlar is great and will out last your whole clutch setup.

Sorry to inform you of bad news but stock discs are liabilities. They tend to have the springs pop-out or the spring retaining plate break or the hub breaking. It's just a matter of time in performance apps where you do alot of high rpm launches .

I am not trying to scare you but it happened so often to me that I personally don't sell anymore stock based discs and don't reccommend it. Especially since I can offer the aftermarket kevlar disc at around $185.

 

more! more!

 

Thanks for the info man, I am for sure ordering the 6 puck unsprung hub setup from you when I scrape together the dough for it!

 

Yeah, I know.... I already broke the spring on the totally stock clutch... I put a brand new kevlar stocker in for safety.

 

what's the main difference between a 6 or 4 puck and a street disc??

coz my friend told me 4 or 6 puck is no good to D16 tranny, is it true??

he kind of explained why to me, but i forgot... hehe sorry

nice job rocket !!!!!!!

 

This deserves a Bump!!!

I'm now contimplating selling my Exedy organic disc and buying a Kevlar disc!!

 

I was always under the impression that an unsprung 4 or 6 were not good for daily driving and could put you tranny through hell. If you would elaborate.
Thanks.


[Modified by Doodoo, 1:20 PM 6/27/2002]

 

Street disc usually means "beefed up" stock organic disc.

The difference between 4 and 6 puck is that with less pucks the harder it is to engage smoothly (harder to control slippage).


CLUTCH 101

SPRUNG v. UN-SPRUNG DISCS

Which is better, depends on usage. For any performance application I always reccommend un-sprung. Would you want a one piece hammer or a three piece hammer connected by springs? If you want something fail safe then unsprung is the way to go.

The reason why there are springs in the hub is not to prevent chatter. Chatter is a engagement property and is mostly dictated by the friction material used.

The springs in the clutch disc prevent crank vibrations(piston engines have jerky rotational motion due to compbustion) from entering the transmission. This is the principal behind sprung hubs.

In practice I have yet to see any ill effects of running un-sprung hubs. I've taken apart a few transmissions and have not notice anything unusual. It's not like I've opened up a tranny and say look Bob, this is what happens when you run a un-sprung disc. I just haven't found any signs of bad effects.

Now if you want your tranny to last 200-300k miles then I would choose to run a sprung disc. If not the lighter un-sprung disc is my choice.


....more to come later.

 

wow great stuff rocket!

Just a question, I think my act street disc is kinda busted, so I'd like to replace it. Can I use any aftermarket disc? The PP and all the other stuff are only a year old.

 

the difference between 6 pucks and 3 pucks is the surface area. so the same pressure plate would exert more pressure on the one with less surface area.

 

Rocket, I here by declare you the clutch guru of Honda Tech!!

 

Yes, clutch discs have a standard thickness so they can be mixed and matched without problems. Of course there maybe exceptions but it's a very common standard.

 

I have a Clutchnet Stage 2 Clutch Sprung 6 Puck pairing up with a ZEX 10.4 Lb. Flywheel sitting in my bedroom waiting to go in my 2000 Civic Si, but waiting for my Hasport Rear Drag Motor Mount to get here. Well anyways, I was wondering if you could voice your opinion on the Clutchnet Stage 2 Clutch...I was under the impression that it is made by the RPS Turbo Clutch Manufactuer. Which I believed to be a good clutch company. I have driven 2 cars with this clutch and it seemed to be a nice clutch, IMO. Well thanks a lot and I look forward to reading your reply.

Jay

 

 

I personally don't like ClutchNet. 2 reasons.

1) They use Valeo pressure plates. This is a economy brand to put it nicely.
2) The friction pads they use will eat your flywheel and pressure plate.

They do however make some of the best discs. They in fact make about 75% of all aftermarket discs.

 

CLUTCH 101

COMMENTS ON CERTAIN BRANDS

RPS
Located in Chatsworth CA, close to where I live, its run by Robert Smith and sounds like a small operation when I called them once.

RPS is really expensive for a clutch. I haven't seen one though so I can't say what trick stuff they are doing. The rib diaphram design is gimmicky in my opinon since it should not affect diaphram springiness. The fingers just won't flex. That's all.

CLUTCHNET
Located in El Monte, CA, it's owned by a Russian family and has been in business for 40years. They are probably the biggest and best aftermarket disc manufacturer. They make disc for everything from Audi to VW. Their pressure plates are Valeo brand units which I don't like. Also their friction pads are too soft and will eat your flywheel and pressure plate.

ACT
Located in Palmdale, CA. ACT is also known as Kennedy Engineering Products. They make awesome pressure plates (their own make). Nice and stiff but the friction pads they use on their pucks are to aggressive and chatter and disentegrate and eat up your flywheel and pressure plate.

They are also actively involed in import drag racing and have a booth at every Battle of the Imports in Palmdale.


...more to come

 

Since you like the clutchnet disks... any thoughts on the "Air lok" disk

 

So is the quality of a Valeo PP, equal to stock, or better then stock...cause what is the good of having a greatly designed disc if you got a shitty PP. I wonder why they supply such a crappy designed PP. Let me know.

Thanks Again,
Jay

 

For the B-Series, OEM FCC pressure plates are some of the best to start with. Valeo is not anywhere near FCC. Why Valeo for Clutchnet? I don't know.

 

"Air Lok" just means the clutch facing doesn't have "marcel" or cushion which is a flat spring in between the two faces of the lining. Marcel allows for more gradual engagement. So all pucks by nature have no marcel and this is one of the reasons for fast engagement besides the composition of the friction material.

 

I have a fidanza 9 lb flywheel, clutchnet 6 puc and their dual diaphram pp. When would you recommend dropping the tranny and having a look at the flywheel? I'd really hate to chew up the fidanza seeing that it wasn't exactly cheap.

 

Rocket,

Thanks for writing in all of this. Your knowledge through experience is something that you typcially can't find!

I have a DailyDriven GS-R. And there's a good chance that I'll be in a lot of traffic. What's a good setup that has good pedal feel (but not too hard) and longevity?