hamza91

Bought this turbo as a fully working, good condition bullseye performance turbo about 5 months ago. Haven't had a chance to install it until recently and it is quite smokey and has a lot of play.

I am planning on rebuilding it as I would have no recourse with the seller but I am not sure if it is actually a bullseye performance unit anymore. I was wondering if someone could confirm from the pictures or have any idea what turbo it is. I am unsure whether to rebuild or go with another turbo altogether.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There are no pictures. If you want it rebuilt, Bullseye is your best bet anyway.

People need to start knowing and researching what they plan to buy.. before they buy it.

hamza91

Pictures seem to be working fine on my browser?

I would send it to get rebuilt from Bullseye if I can confirm it is actually a Bullseye turbo. The turbo doesnt have any tags or anything to indicate it is a Bullseye turbo. I am based in the UK and dont want to send it all the way to Bullseye to get rebuilt only for them to tell me it isnt one of theirs.

I bought the turbo after research, and if it is what it was sold to me as, it will be perfect for what I am looking for. The reason I have doubts whether it is a Bullseye turbo or not is because I have noticed Bullseye turbos usually have a tag of some sort stating the model number etc whereas mines doesn't so I'm not sure where you get the idea that the turbo was bought blindly without research.

lolv8s

Its starting to seem like this guy Smooth talked you. Maybe take the housing off and see if you can find any brands or serial numbers on the inside . I'm not familiar with bullseye turbos so I can't say if its a true turbo or not. But usuallly turbos have their brand on the compressor housing. (Precision, greddy)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Not necessarily. On the customized versions of any manufacturer, they may not be there. It doesn't necessarily mean its not legitimate.

The photos are not posting unless you're using [img][/img] in between the link that you have the photos listed on a central server like flicker or photobucket. YOU may be able to see them, but we can't.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

From what I can tell in photos...

It uses a t04b compressor wheel (you would need to measure inducer/exducer to determine exactly which one) in what looks like a t04b based compressor housing

uses the standard oil cooled journal bearing CHRA

The turbine housing is a Bullseye part, the overall design, surface finish, and multiple bolt pattern outlet are a dead giveaway. Turbine wheel is hard to say without inducer/exducer measurements but it appears to be either a Stage 5 T3 turbine wheel or possibly a P trim wheel. Either way it's definitely been clipped, looks to be about 15-20 degrees worth.

We can't say for sure this turbo will work for your application without knowing what that application is, power level, purpose of the vehicle, etc. We also can't say for sure until we know exactly what the turbo is. Only way for us to establish that is to have you remove the housings and measure the wheels with a caliper

hamza91

Unfortunately does seem as if I have been ripped off but you live and you learn I guess.

Have put up the pictures again but through this site so should be able to see them now buddy.

Thanks for your in depth reply, it is much appreciated. I have a digital caliper lying around so will take the inducer/exducer measurements asap.

The turbo will be used in my Honda Civic Type R EK9 (JDM import). Its running a B18C4 (same as your GSR B18C1 motor). Car has 3 inch custom downpipe, Skunk2 Megapower R cat back exhaust system, Tial external wastegate, ARP head studs, AEM wideband, Hondata S300, electronic boost controller as far as engine/turbo modifications go.

I am hoping for around 280whp as the engine is totally stock apart from the ARP head studs and it is also running the B16B Type R head along with the cams and valvetrain from my original engine. I would like the turbo to pull to the factory 8600rpm without power tailing off. Car is a weekend toy along with some light track work.

I was also wondering where I could get a rebuild kit for this turbo as the local turbo guys arent familiar with it therefore dont have a kit to rebuild it.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It's a bit large for 300hp. The t04b compressor wheels are what is called "high ratio" and they generally take lots of pressure to make given power level compared to more efficient wheels.

Once you measure the wheels, assuming I can ID the turbo, I should be able to locate a rebuild kit for you fairly quickly. Also measure the turbine shaft diameter at the end of the compressor locknut, that will tell me if it's a big shaft or little shaft (appears to be little from the photo but I'm just *** U ME ing lol)

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Hamsandwich that you?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ah. yes, the older Bullseye Power T04B S-3 compressor wheels in a P-trim 4/5 bolt turbine housing. You weren't ripped off, this is the real deal. This is when Bullseyepower was using Garrett/Borg-warner Hybrids from 2005. I was with Dan designing that turbine housing back in 2004, to help with the those that wanted to use a 2.5" 4 bolt, or a Ford-style 5 bolt for easy access. Those turbine housings were used for the first Generation Silver surfers of 2005.

Picture of the 1st Gen Surfer below.



turbine housing to fit both 4 bolt and Ford Style 5 bolt turbine flanges



It shares itself with the S256 series of turbine housings that they made.




Same cartridge:



If you're looking at 300whp for this turbocharger, you're fine with doing so, it will make that no problem due to the turbine wheel. You have to look beyond the compressor housing itself, as that doesn't tell you the capability of this turbo, so measuring the compressor wheel itself will help tell the story. Seeing the design profile, it looks to be either an S3 or an V1/V2 from over 20 years ago.. Effective until you get to about 20psi, but then that's it..

If its a V1/V2 - compressor map is this



If its the S-3, compressor map is this



Finding a "rebuild kit" will not be easy if it needs it, because its using both T3 compressor / turbine and T4 turbine parts. You'd basically be buying 2 "kits" to rebuild one turbo, so you're looking at over $375, anyway, whether or not Bullseye repairs it or not. The oil feed uses a 1/4NPT fitting to -3AN and needs to have a .060" to .065" restrictor for that large shaft of the P-trim wheel.

So, you're looking at basically, 1) Turbonetics compressor wheel, 2) Borg-Warner compressor cover, brackets, 3) Garrett or Bullseyepower Backing plate, Garrett T3 thrust bearings, thrust collar, bearing clips with T4 Journal bearings, oil sealing ring, rear heat shield, and 4) Modified Garrett T4 Turbine wheel, with 5) Bullseyepower turbine housing.

Ah, the memories.

hamza91

Took some measurements today and they are

Comp wheel inducer 2.11 inches
Comp wheel exducer 2.65 inches

Turbine wheel exducer 2.46 inches
Turbine wheel inducer 2.89 inches

Have also attached some more pictures

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Now, I know what you have. That's the older Bullseyepower –produced Super V-trim compressor wheel. (first compressor map) I knew that compressor wheel profile was familiar.

47-48lbs/min V-Trim.
Comp wheel inducer 2.11 inches - 53.6mm
Comp wheel exducer 2.65 inches - 67 mm

Turbine wheel exducer 2.46 inches – 62.5mm
Turbine wheel inducer 2.89 inches -73.4mm

This turbo is using a larger exhaust wheel than what was standard for the compressor wheel. (BEP had a knack for always putting in too large of an exhaust wheel with the compressor wheels, when they were doing Garrett/BW hybrids years ago (about 8-10 years ago.)

They were originally intended for the DSM aftermarket, in which the 2.0 litre 4G63 didn't have a problem with using such a large turbine wheel. I started changing them to O-trim turbine wheels to get a bit more response for the sub-2.0 litre LS turbo guys (when they were still around with Turbonetics.. Not anymore, discontinued).

The good news is that:

1) You'll make your 350whp with this turbo with ease with this combination... It may not be optimal, but it'll work

2) Now you know you were lied to, because its an actual BEP turbo.

3) This turbo has full Garrett turbo internals. You won't find them in ONE kit, (more like several), but if it needs to be repaired, if you find the right parts, it has a better chance than if it were a full Borg-Warner

4) Like the other Garretts, for Honda Engines that run over 50psi of oil pressure, you'll need a .060" oil restrictor (like Carlos8 on his thread) in a 1/4NPT to -3AN size.

Head to B&R Fittings to pick one up like Carlos8 did. Don't use restrictor plates and make-shift oil restrictors like he did.

Here's his thread..
Carlos8 fitting thread

Here's where to get the correct restrictor
B&R Fittings 1/4 to -3AN restrictor

Ok. Now the bad news

A) That compressor wheel will only compress about 46lbs/min of air.. Technically, smaller than a T3/T04E "50 Trim", even though it can make over 350whp due to the way larger exhaust wheel.

B) Don't expect to push this thing past about 23psi of boost pressure. That older wheel design almost uses a straight backwall exducer instead of a curved one.. Very diesel-like behaviour. So, at 21-23psi of boost pressure, it will start to surge out and kick out hot air.. But its not because of the T04b compressor cover.

C) Like I said, finding rebuild parts are tough if it becomes damaged. Not just internally in the CHRA, but external for the compressor wheel, compressor cover, etc. By the time you find all three eBay kits to service it, or try to send it out to a distributor to get done, you will have spent almost enough money to get a brand new unit of your choice.

So, don't set your expectations high.. Its better than any OEM or EBay turbo. With that said, if it dies for any reason. Put it to sleep and bury it somewhere; not worth fixing.

I think we solved your mystery.. Good luck to you..

hamza91

Just goes to show there's no substitute for experience. I have been trying to identify and find info about this turbo for a while to no avail and you have told me everything and anything about the turbo straight away

Any idea what rebuild kits I would need to rebuild it? In your opinion, would you rebuild it or buy another turbo? My main concern is will it pull to the 8600 rev limit without power tailing off? This was the main reason for changing my turbo as my previous turbo tailed off after 7600 but wasn't too bothered as I got it with the car. Thanks again.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

most smaller-framed turbos will "tail off", in the 7800rpm range on GS-Rs that utilize a stock head... . What you need to understand is that it is not necessarily because of the turbocharger. The "tail off" could be from other factors, like cylinder head components / port, lots of exhaust backpressure from the head, other things. But to be perfectly frank with you, you don't need to worry about that rpm redline so much from "dyno charts".. by the time you reach that rpm level in the real world driving experience, you've already shifted to the next gear and gone back into the main rpm band of the engine.

You won't find exactly where it "tails off", until you put it on and tune with it it. That part is completely up to you. I can't answer that with any measure of precision.

Based upon what you're describing right now for what's wrong with it, I'd honestly just get a new quality unit and be done with it.

hamza91

I have found a company who claim to rebuild any turbo regardless if it is now obsolete or not. Will get a quote from them and take it from there. In the meantime if that is not a viable option, is there any turbos you would recommend, bearing in mind I would like it to pull well up top and i'm not too bothered about the boost threshold.

I have the 5 bolt downpipe so would a different turbo sit in a different position meaning I would have to get the downpipe adapted or do they all sit more or less in the same place with the manifold dictating the turbo position?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The discussion between you and your builds is not whether or not he can repair an "obsolete" product. Its 1) whether or not your rebuilder has access to the 3 different companies parts that will fit, 2) what's actually wrong with the turbo after his/her diagnosis.

He may be able to repair it, but a turbo is rarely the cost sum of its parts; in some cases, its better to put the money towards new than to rebuild. He may suggest that once you get the bill after his diagnosis.

For what you have, your replacement basically needs to be a Garrett-styled turbocharger (Garrett,Turbonetics, Precision, etc) that has a 5 bolt configuration. The spacing differences are really going to be with the manifold and wastegate placement more than the downpipe area.