<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, if its 110 degrees outside, that air isn't being sucked in..............
You have to think about wind chill - when you're driving - especially at highway speeds, that air gets MUCH cooler. But i see what you're saying. Now that I think about it, that AC intercooler thing would be pretty decent. But how effective? It would have to be a huge ac system wouldn't it? - and wouldn't that add a lot more weight to the vehicle? I don't think our ac systems are large enough to support much at all. </TD></TR></TABLE>

By definition wind chill only effects living organisms. meaning it "feels" colder than it actually is.

If the outside temp is 110 degrees the intercooler can only cool to 110 degrees (if it was 100% efficient, which is impossible)

Also according to the 1st law of thermodynamics, you will use more energy than you can possibly gain by using an AC system to cool the water in a liquid to air charge air cooler system.

But you can think of it as an energy you can store (in the form of cold water here) than can be used when you need it (WOT)

However in my opinion it would be an overly complex and an inefficient system compared to a simple water to air or even air to air system.

I am in no means saying it won't work, just that there are better ways.

Look into water injection

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WTF! Hell no it wouldn't work.

The compressor takes low temperature refrigerant - comrpesses it - and turns it into hot refrigerant gas. Then it travels to the condenser(the radiator looking thing) where it is turned into a liquid through heat transfer - then it moves to your dryer(which ever one you have) and the pressure is reduced - but its still a liquid........then it goes to your evaporator where it removes the heat from your interior. Heat transfers from Hot to Cold - so the heat you have in the air in the passenger compartment moves to the cool air in the evaporator (thus making it hot air).

In other words, No.

Not saying air to water wouldn't work - just saying, the Ac system is out of the question...unless you want to spray suva on your intercooler systsem </TD></TR></TABLE>

STFU yes it will.
http://www.coolflow.com/intrac...r.htm

Ac refrigerant to water heat exchanger.

 

i don't see how water is going to be any better than refrigerant.....first off water doesnt evaporate and take as much energy from the air as refrigerant, otherwise we'd have to use water in our air conditioners.

It would work and it would be more effective than water or alcohol injection, but as far as practicality....i dont know

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't see how water is going to be any better than refrigerant.....first off water doesnt evaporate and take as much energy from the air as refrigerant, otherwise we'd have to use water in our air conditioners.

It would work and it would be more effective than water or alcohol injection, but as far as practicality....i dont know</TD></TR></TABLE>

Practicality ? http://www.coolflow.com/intrac...r.htm if you didnt see it the first time.

Water takes heat from gas faster than freon refrigerant. This is why John at cool flow makes exhangers that pass ac refrigerant and water through them.

 

We have hit an option I never thought of

Using the A/C to cool water for the A/R IC I was just going to use freon to cool the air still researching though if I can come up with a definate answer I will try this

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

..............You have to think about wind chill - when you're driving - especially at highway speeds, that air gets MUCH cooler. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are kidding right? Only living things experince wind chill. As far as your intercooler "knows" 100*F is 100*F regardless of the speed you are traveling.

You most certainly CAN use an A/C system to provide additional reduction to the charge temperature AND cool the car. You will not get optimum cooling of the charge temperature and interior temperature if used simultaneously, but there is no reason you could not use the A/C to cool your charge temps at the track and then drive home in comfort afterwards.

FWIW, a liquid intercooler would be easier and properly designed could provide much cooler charge temps than a stock A/C system.

 

so, um, why not do like some people do with their intercooler only take it one step farther.

I know on some race setups, they place the intercooler inside the cabin in the passenger compartment and then run it as a water/air intercooler using a tank of ice water and a pump to circulate the ice water.

I dont see where switching to using a/c would be too bad. The system will weigh probably a little less than the ice water setup depending on how compact you go with the evaporator and condensor setup considering most of the ones that use the water tank use 20 gallon tanks filled up with a gallon of water weighing approximately 5lbs...

but instead of plumbing the refrigerant directly into the intercooler. Just use a lighter air only intercooler and have the evaporator positioned against the intercooler with a plenum around both and a fan behind the evaporator. Just blow the a/c air across the intercooler.

I mean hell, when I usually fix an a/c system in a car and give it a full charge. I normally see ~50* at the vents. I can only imagine 50* air cooling a light air only intercooler inside the cabin instead of sitting up front.

Also, I dont think you'd have to worry about the possibilities of condensation accumulating inside the intercooler as much as you would if you directly cooled it with the gas considering you have to worry about the cooling fins sweating.

I can see it now. You get it up and working using the intercooler as the evaporator and shut the car off. all the sweat from the previous cycle accumulates into a puddle inside the intercooler and then next time you crank the car up and hit boost, it just blows in a big puddle of sweat accumulation and hydrolocks your engine

granted that's worst case scenario but even if you had a drain valve or something you'd have to worry about the valve leaking or the puddle forming elsewhere if there's another low spot for the accumulation to travel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...most of the ones that use the water tank use 20 gallon tanks filled up with a gallon of water weighing approximately 5lbs...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Water is ~8lbs/gal. A 2 gallon resevoir would be enough for a street setup. At Bonneville a 550BHP 2 liter turbo will melt 30 pounds of ice during a run.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can see it now. You get it up and working using the intercooler as the evaporator and shut the car off. all the sweat from the previous cycle accumulates into a puddle inside the intercooler and then next time you crank the car up and hit boost, it just blows in a big puddle of sweat accumulation and hydrolocks your engine </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats why you have a small hole (~.125") in your intercooler at its lowest point. More likely than condensation is the chance you get a leak in the core allowing water to enter the intake. The small hole will allow it to leak out of the system preventing damage to the engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by troubledsol03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually that is the same thing I am trying to figure out thought maybe some of the brains here on H-T could give some technical input

The idea is sound though not sure what it will take to make it work

Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>


LAMINOVA

 

I took some of the condensation into account though not after I shut it off didi think of that

I did think of the condensation working in my favor some to get rid of the tinyest bit of detination like a mini water injection kit though in a very small scale

I just need a for sure what would work better a small A/W IC or a stock evaporator in a box (so to speak)

dc2turbo "LAMINOVA" ???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alfa Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
FWIW, a liquid intercooler would be easier and properly designed could provide much cooler charge temps than a stock A/C system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your funny because the freon intercooling system still happens to use water to pass through the intercooler.

 

http://www.opconab.com/www/fil...r.pdf

 

I read an article a long time ago when the Lightning implemented the A/C system to cool the intake charge. One of the issues they had was to find a efficient way to vent out all the excessive heat from the condensors/heat exchangers/radiator at the same time.

I see how they could pull it off in a Ford pickup truck with lots of room for extra ducting and heatshielding. Lots of scoops and ducts to allow the engine to vent out all the heat.

The way I see it is even if the system does work out as planned, I don't think there is enough room to allow all the extra heat to vent for a tiny Honda engine bay. I would assume that all the extra heat giving off from the condensors would just get sucked back into the engine bay and end up back into the turbo inlet. Think about all the crowded mess inside a turbo honda engine bay -- huge water heat exhanger, radiator, and now there would be huge condensors and lines to get into the way. Wow, I think the engine would overheat itself to death just by idling on the driveway

It could work to prevent a heatsoaked intercooler when the car is idling/cruising, but to have the system work at WOT conditions to improve power output would be quite difficult. Room/space being a major obstacle, so building a system that could store chilled coolant/water/refridgerant enough for a 30 second burst or whatnot is going to be hard IMO.

Not to mention that a Ford Lightning is putting out 400HP and lots of TQ... A 40-50 HP increase is only about 10-12% more power if you do end up building a system that is up to par with the Lightning.

I'd like to see someone pull this off though... But somehow I cannot imagine a 400+ HP Honda being able to cram all that stuff in there with tubular manifolds and such. We've seen enough guys swapping to a half-sized radiator to make room, so man, it would be a crazy challenge

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by troubledsol03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just need a for sure what would work better a small A/W IC or a stock evaporator in a box (so to speak)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Anyone that could give me this info would help alot I have everything but an actual A/W IC I have all the stock parts to put it back together only money spent will be on a system recharge as of now

Maybe I am wasting my time thinking about this if it could work efficiently enough to be worth while someone would be doing it by now right?