HondaEJ7

Hey guys, I searched for a while last night on here, turbod16, and HMT, but I only found bits and pieces of info, so if someone can confirm everything and give me suggestions or even criticism I would appreciate it alot because thats knowledge for me.

Sorry for a long post too, but this will eventually be my build thread this spring.


I decided I want to turbo my HX d16y5 motor BY SPRING 2007 because I want more power out of it. I am starting this thread early because boosting an HX is not easy, so I want to be prepared for anything. I don't want to swap to a B-series because I want something different, and I don't see any turbo HXs from where my area. I don't want to rush anything because I want to make this a nice turbo daily driver and do everything right the first time.

If you seriously have nothing constructive to say, just don't post. Again, I don't want a different motor or mini-me swap, HX all the way!!

Constructive Criticism and suggestions welcome.


Anyway, here's the possible setup, still might change up some parts:

The car is a 1997 d16y5 and right now it has about 120,000 mileage with stock internals and bolt ons. I want to put down at least 175hp(the more the better) and not go beyond 7-8 psi.

Parts:
-newer y8 tranny will be swapped by spring with new clutch and flywheel
-t25 from a 1997 gsx (probably will keep internal wastegate for now)
-dsm 450cc injectors
-resistor box
-any FMIC, doesnt matter right now
-either a custom manifold or an HF manifold with adapter plate
-1g dsm bov crushed or greddy type-s
-oil lines (7/16th i think)
-walbro 255lph fuel pump
-synapse missing link map sensor (is this needed??)
-2.5 inch piping for downpipe, maybe 3inch for exhaust
-vafcII
-gauges: boost, egt, fuel pressure, oil pressure


Heres the problem I have. I really don't want to go OBDI, I want to stay OBDII. I know OBDI is chippable and easier to tune, but I want to try and stay OBDII if I can, thats just me.

Here are some options I came up with, please correct me if I'm wrong:

-a p28 with hondata s200 and vtec set at 3000rpm

-a p07(i read somewhere that any a certain California p07 or something like that with vtec-e would work) chipped with uberdata and EX basemap and tuned at a shop

-get my current HX ecu tuned or something by hondata. Is that even possible? Doesn't an HX have a different o2 sensor?

Thats the part I am having the biggest problem on. TUNING
I don't know what to do with it. I want this part to be done the best, even if it costs me a little more cash and time on my part, I am ready to do that, so my setup runs alot better.

Also, I am in Chicago and I actually have emissions in August 2007, so thats also in mind. If I go obdI, thats automatically a failure. Will I have to go back to stock once emmisions come around? The reason this tuning is a big issue is because the car is an HX.


Im just really confused at this point. Anybody have ANY feedback for me because everything helps!

thanks a BUNCH




Modified by HondaEJ7 at 10:55 PM 11/7/2006

xbabysharkx

bump on this

MattsGreenEG

help the man out

philosofy1

well, the turbo stuff sounds good (as far as your parts list). when you started naming off ecu, the p28 is an obd1 not obd2. i know you really don't want to go obd1, but it's going to be your best option, especially if you're planning on going turbo.

as far as ecu's messing up on the ex trim motor's, i never really heard about that. someone correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the p28 from the ex? also correct me if i'm wrong, but can't he also convert to obd1, but when it's time to take in the car for inspections, all he would have to do is change the ecu out? or would already being turbo affect the inspections no matter what?

sohcvtec1995

ask username hx-t. i believe thats his name

MonkeyBoy668

I believe in Illinois you cannot legally swap an OBD-1 ECU into a car that came with OBD-2 and still drive it on public roads.

While you could break the law and swap ECUs before going in for a test (similar to the ******** with test pipes on public roads), if you develop some a problem on the way to/during the test you'll fail the test - and have to correct whatever the problem is with the OBD-2 ECU in there, so safest is to keep it OBD-2. You'll be legally able to drive it on public roads and not have problems come out of left field when you need to get it tested.

For a 97 Illinois doesn't test tailpipe emissions anymore, they just do OBD-2 testing. They used to have some OBD-2 problem with 96 & 97 Hondas, so they had to do a tailpipe test, but they got past whatever that was.

So if you fail the OBD-2 test, don't expect them to revert to tailpipe tests anymore - in fact, expect them to show a genuine interest in your car, including popping the hood. Given the general level of job dissatisfaction at most testing facilities, I'd actually be pretty surprised if they did - but you never know when you'll come across a guy who wants to do a good job.

HondaEJ7

yea the p28 is obdI, i knew that, but during inspections, if i had a stock ECU, it would sense boost and a CEL would be on. if i go into emmissions with a CEL i fail automatically.


edit*

i recently took my lexus es300 in to emmisions, and it had a CEL because of a bad EGR. i took it anyway because the pink notices came. i went there, the car failed, and all they did was give me some paperwork and tell me where i can get it fixed. they didnt make me pop the hood or anything, i doubt they would make me pop my hood if i failed in illinois. i thought this was only in cali?


bump

krazyhmongboi

im boosting my HX right now also..runs pretty good..just make shure u get ur ecu chipped/tuned..and depending on ur budget..i'd get the best stuff and dont mess around cause u'll end up spending more time and money on cheap stuff

HondaEJ7

hey krazyhmongboi
could u post ur setup just for reference and what u used to tune/ecu chipped? that would help alot. thanks

krazyhmongboi

right now all i have in it is

td05 turbo
fmic with custom piping
greddy type s bov
450cc injectors
obd1 ecu chipped and tuned
oil lines etc
walbro 255lph fuel pump

those are practically the major stuff..but tuning i just gave the car to my friend who works at a shop for a day and he tuned it and chipped the ecu for me..cost me about 150/hr (2) and ecu chip 100

HondaEJ7

what ECU and tuning program? do u know?

Bense

don't even get me started

HondaEJ7

BENSE! i been waiting for you hahaha. wheres your feedback?? ur the HX god to me hahaha. cmon help a fellow hxer out :D


Modified by HondaEJ7 at 11:51 PM 9/22/2006

Bense

tuning a y5 is going to involve finding a VERY VERY SMART. none of these off the wall shitmongrels that you mail your chips to and ****.


obd2 is a bag of ****. these y5's and y8's are **** to tune.

your best bet is going to be starting off with d16y8 maps and going from there.

you will HAVE to get it dyno tuned because this is such a oddball setup. basically, you follow the same procedure as the y8 guys do. but then you're gonna have to play with vtec ****. and since vtec-e comes in sooner than regular vtec. it's gonna be a monster to tune.

before you can begin understanding the y5 timing **** you gotta understand why the y8 timing is so different. I always suggest for people to read Joseph Davis's thread on HMT entitled "y8 timing revealed ******s.... beyond p2p"
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/f...59894

aside from working around the 12btdc ignition timing issue, it will probably be just like the y8 in that it likes VERY little timing in the higher rpms.

all that said, and that's a certain way to get it working.

before you begin to even think about power and gas mileage you need to get this thing running correctly with boost. THEN i would play with the fuel and timing levels around cruising rpms.

Keep in mind that the vtec-e cars have long gears inorder to keep that vehicle in the 12v lean burn mode. swapping to a ex transmission is going to bring your cruising rpms up about 14% so you'll have to cruise even slower to stay in lean burn. or you can go with a custom 5th gear. but that's not worth the money. in fact, the only thing that will be good for is proving a point.
######################################


or if you take a look in the JD thread on HMT you'll see that the p2p adds timing based off of knock sensor feedback. combined with the wideband o2 sensor that precisely measures fuel levels. if the y8 sets timing like this, I am pretty sure that the y5 will be like this as well.

So with a VERY VERY optimistic outlook the p2n ecu found in the hx verywell could be the 'ideal' ecu in that it could automatically tune the car if a few things were to be "tricked"

who knows. maybe you can retard the dizzy and crank the fuel pressure up. who knows. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY little is known about the y5. I had to gather all the information that I could find on my y5/b5 hx/gx project earlier this year. Most of which I've shared with you guys in my build threads (although some have been moved to my personal website, link in sig) but pretty much when it comes to the hx, you're deviating from the common path. little is known and little has been tested on this.

i'd pretty much say to forget about keeping the p2n obd2 ecu despite the cool features that it has. because it may work with some "tweaking" but remember, each time you mess up, you could destroy an entire engine. if you have a huge stash of d16y5's, by all means knock yourself out and let us know how it works.

I will say that the intake springs are shorter on the y5 head, so i wouldn't be revving the **** out of it. again, not much is known about the pressures/rpms that they can handle, so i'd play it on the safe side.

treat it exactly like a d16y8, the only difference is the intake valve springs, the rocker assembly and the cam (intake mani as well)

valves are the same
ports are the same
head casting is the same
so if anyone gives you **** about the vtec-e having small ports, smack em around and tell them that that was the z1 with the smaller ports

good luck, i'm anxious to hear how this turns out. after you get everything going, you should try to get a reground cam from crower.

HondaEJ7

there we go Bense, I knew you would come through. great info, but the timing and engine management are still an issue. still need to figure that one out


bump

hondaej8

nice!

NathanielH

why are you an ******* if you run a test pipe on public roads? i ran a test pipe on my old b16 coupe, and i 5 gas tested it, and the emissions were well within spec. My hc's and co levels were great.

Turbo_y8

We installed a y8 jackson super charger on my friends 96 hx with 139,xxx miles, stock internals, no problems. We used the fmu, stock injectors, and the boost retard from jackon racing. no problems yet, and its been 4 months.

side note: we also used my old y8 exhaust manifold, and my y8 cat, extended his seconsary o2 wires. works great.

Boilermaker1

While I can't be of much help, I can offer some insight into passing...
Stock ECU + a piggyback like Emanage will pass emissions. As long as the ECU doesn't see boost (which e-manage clamps off) then as long as the rest of it works, there's no CELs and no more than 2 of the ready monitors are off, then the car will pass. This worked for me here in VA where they're known to be bastards about it, even with a high flow cat (1 brick with 1/2 the cells vs the stock 2) and the turbo, the car still passed the OBD scan.
I make no claims to knowing illinois inspection well enough to know if that'll help, but if you can plug in a piggy back for long enough to pass, then it may be worth looking to the option. The other 364.5 days of the year, do whatever works best for the car.

HondaEJ7

sounds interesting boilermaker. the emissions people here just plug in a code scanner and scan the ecu for any codes. if there are no codes, then the car passes. if there is even one trouble code, the car fails. so im gonna have to look into that.

blackeg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NathanielH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why are you an ******* if you run a test pipe on public roads? . </TD></TR></TABLE>

i run open cutout 81mm lsvtec turbo @ 1 bar on the sttreet haha. its loud.

i have an hx, and looked into boosting in about 2 years ago..here's what i concluded at the time.


the y5 runs best off the p2n(i think) hx ecu, with the lower vtec xover and timing differences. combined with emissions and inspections, i was going to actually run a rising rate fmu.!! yea, fmu on a honda.

i figured that on 6-7psi out of a small turbo(t3 or similar, like your mistu snail), combined with colder plugs gapped down to somewhere around .026-.030" would help prevent knock. maybe have to kick the dist back 1-2*, wasnt sure on that.

open the motor and use some aftermarket headstuds and maybe a slightly thicker hg, i was pretty confident that i could make a reliable 160-180whp on that. my goals were more power than that, so i went elsewhere, but i think that would work. plus, your keeping stock ecu and injectors, so you'll pass inspection too!!!

HondaEJ7

so i run my stock ecu with an FMU? or get the pn2 chipped? still a little confused

OMG naD16 lol

bump, im running an hx too and would love to know anything i could about getting it tuned for boost, although i might just say forget it and do a mini-me

ProJectCvic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMG naD16 lol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bump, im running an hx too and would love to know anything i could about getting it tuned for boost, although i might just say forget it and do a mini-me</TD></TR></TABLE>

either run an vafc hack or fmu setup if you don't want to mess inside the ecu.

stockb18c

t25 is small for only 7-8 you have to push like 10-12 psi to make it worth it i use to have one stock internals on crome set at 13 psi it was a beast