block guard vs. sleeves?
06-11-2003, 07:49 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: IL, USA
Posts: 994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
block guard vs. sleeves?
I am new to the turbo are starting to create my first turbo setup. I am looking to run 16lbs (maybe less) and need to here opinions o block guard vs. sleeves. I am leaning toward the block guard right now due to the price factor but I will hold out to get it sleeved if I have to. The block is a B16 with 8-5-1 JE pistons with crower rods.
06-11-2003, 07:55 AM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Gbg, Pa, USA
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (NVMYSi)
But JDM means your FAAAASSSSTTT lol sorry dude just teasing
the major difference between the 2 is that a block guard will increase strength up top but will leave the lower end of the sleeves to break or walk causing it to break right below the block guard... some people that i know got shops to press them in and it warped their bore size in each cylinder so they had to get it bored
... but some are very lucky with them , im going sleeves next summer its worth the wait to get a job that is strong top to bottem (my .02) but then its not perfect either if they sink you just wasted all that money but the sleeves are alot stronger , but if you go with the guard i cant see over 11-12 with it unless its tuned like a mother.
the major difference between the 2 is that a block guard will increase strength up top but will leave the lower end of the sleeves to break or walk causing it to break right below the block guard... some people that i know got shops to press them in and it warped their bore size in each cylinder so they had to get it bored
... but some are very lucky with them , im going sleeves next summer its worth the wait to get a job that is strong top to bottem (my .02) but then its not perfect either if they sink you just wasted all that money but the sleeves are alot stronger , but if you go with the guard i cant see over 11-12 with it unless its tuned like a mother.
06-11-2003, 09:24 AM
#3
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (b20turboic)
i personally am a fan of the whole stock internal, compression thing. i have read of a few freak b16 18's doing 15-25 psi on a stock block, but i guess thats cause their tuning game is tight!!! i personally think everything is in the tuning , yes to a limit, but wouldnt you be pissed if you saw someone running 20 psi on a gsr and lets say you doing teh same but you are sleeved and he's not. you get what im saying, get a kick *** stand alone before either, i know people have difft opinions to sleeve or not, but i say not to, get a kick *** ecu first make sure you address that issue, cause without a good ecu, sleeves or blockgaurd aint ****
06-11-2003, 11:06 AM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (evoeone)
i'm personally not a fan of the blockguard, though some have used them without any troubles. but most end up having problems with blockguards. sometimes it's cooling issues. when using a blockguard it's recommended that it is fitted properly into the block, and then after that the sleeves are bored/honed and the block decked slightly to make sure there is no distortion between cylinders and the deck surface. that way everything is to spec. if the guard is just "thrown in" it often times leads to various problems in the long run.
i prefer sleeving if more strength is needed, but i've never used a sleeved block.
i was going to this year but the costs and time just didn't work for me so i kept the sleeves OEM using 81mm bore pistons. with just new pistons and rods you can run quite a bit of boost and make decent power, without cracking a sleeve. it's in the tuning and assembly, mostly the tuning. if you use the right components, assemble to spec and then tune very well, the motor should hold up under moderate boost levels for awhile. 12-16 lbs. shouldn't be a problem at all, but it does depend on the turbo being used and the setup. a T25 or T3 at 16 lbs. isn't the same as a T60-1 style boosting 16 lbs. just thought i'd mention that.
some have run 400-500 WHP consistently with stock sleeves, just the basic rod, piston, valve, HG, ARP hardware setup and of course really, really good tuning.
i prefer sleeving if more strength is needed, but i've never used a sleeved block.
i was going to this year but the costs and time just didn't work for me so i kept the sleeves OEM using 81mm bore pistons. with just new pistons and rods you can run quite a bit of boost and make decent power, without cracking a sleeve. it's in the tuning and assembly, mostly the tuning. if you use the right components, assemble to spec and then tune very well, the motor should hold up under moderate boost levels for awhile. 12-16 lbs. shouldn't be a problem at all, but it does depend on the turbo being used and the setup. a T25 or T3 at 16 lbs. isn't the same as a T60-1 style boosting 16 lbs. just thought i'd mention that.
some have run 400-500 WHP consistently with stock sleeves, just the basic rod, piston, valve, HG, ARP hardware setup and of course really, really good tuning.
06-11-2003, 12:04 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (MotorMatrix.com)
All about tuning which is what she currently lacks 
but i use a block gaurd. Luckely when i had it put in and it warped my cylinders a bit (very minute numbers) I was already having it bored. I dont have any cooling problems and it seems to work fine. o yea its a STR gaurd that looks sortove like grear teeth on the outside edges.....
but i use a block gaurd. Luckely when i had it put in and it warped my cylinders a bit (very minute numbers) I was already having it bored. I dont have any cooling problems and it seems to work fine. o yea its a STR gaurd that looks sortove like grear teeth on the outside edges.....
Trending Topics
06-11-2003, 02:47 PM
#8
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im about to have my block sleeved, just because i have the money and for the peace od mind knowing that with proper tuning i wont crack a sleeve. now if they sink thats a different story
06-11-2003, 03:25 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSP
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (sleeper007)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleeper007 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock sleeves 431whp@21 psi daily no prob </TD></TR></TABLE>
How long to you figure your motor is going to last?
If you want your motor to last a while get sleeves, **** you already spent the dough on crowers and pistons.
I say sleeve it if you can afford it. If not don't run over 10psi. just my opinion. i need a reliable car.
How long to you figure your motor is going to last?
If you want your motor to last a while get sleeves, **** you already spent the dough on crowers and pistons.
I say sleeve it if you can afford it. If not don't run over 10psi. just my opinion. i need a reliable car.
06-11-2003, 03:36 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: bay area/socal, CA, USA
Posts: 3,858
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (NVMYSi)
The things that kill me the most is how people seem to always look toward shortcuts. We arent dealing with LEGOS here.
You spent the money on good rods and pistons, ok cool. Your engine is only as strong as the weakest point. So now your sleeves are the weakest point. Ive heard numerous stories about how block guards are bad (warping cylinders, cooling problems, creating hot spot at top of cylinder inturn making you more prone to detonate, ect ect.)
So what if that happens to you? You wasted your money on a block guard, labor, and then you will have to resleeve anyways. Do it right the first time and you wont have to look back in regret, espeicailly when going hardcore with a turbo. Thats my 50 cents on the matter.
And for the people who brag about all this 500+ horsepower stuff on stock sleeves and internals, take into consideration that they dont brag about how long their motor will last.
BTW, i say sleeve the block
You spent the money on good rods and pistons, ok cool. Your engine is only as strong as the weakest point. So now your sleeves are the weakest point. Ive heard numerous stories about how block guards are bad (warping cylinders, cooling problems, creating hot spot at top of cylinder inturn making you more prone to detonate, ect ect.)
So what if that happens to you? You wasted your money on a block guard, labor, and then you will have to resleeve anyways. Do it right the first time and you wont have to look back in regret, espeicailly when going hardcore with a turbo. Thats my 50 cents on the matter.
And for the people who brag about all this 500+ horsepower stuff on stock sleeves and internals, take into consideration that they dont brag about how long their motor will last.
BTW, i say sleeve the block
06-11-2003, 04:21 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Boondocks, IL, usa
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (NVMYSi)
Tim the brand new block guard I inherited is nailed to my wall, along with some other interesting junk parts. Just a thought.
Have you ever thought of having your stock sleeves posted?
Have you ever thought of having your stock sleeves posted?
06-11-2003, 04:32 PM
#12
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (sleeper007)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleeper007 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock sleeves 431whp@21 psi daily no prob </TD></TR></TABLE>nice, lots of people would say "maybe its a matter of time how long it lasts" but i say the hell with 'em LOL jk, liek i said, i think its all in the tuning
06-11-2003, 04:55 PM
#14
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Mikeyslude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mikeyslude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here are the GE sleeves in my block. I say if your gonna do it, be sure to do it right the first time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
nice, i cant wait to get mine back
</TD></TR></TABLE>nice, i cant wait to get mine back
06-11-2003, 05:48 PM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Mikeyslude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mikeyslude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here are the GE sleeves in my block. I say if your gonna do it, be sure to do it right the first time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, if your gonna do it right the first time spend the extra money and get real sleeves. Darton baby!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, if your gonna do it right the first time spend the extra money and get real sleeves. Darton baby!!
06-11-2003, 06:23 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (intekragsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by intekragsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You spent the money on good rods and pistons, ok cool. Your engine is only as strong as the weakest point. So now your sleeves are the weakest point. Ive heard numerous stories about how block guards are bad (warping cylinders, cooling problems, creating hot spot at top of cylinder inturn making you more prone to detonate, ect ect.)
So what if that happens to you? You wasted your money on a block guard, labor, and then you will have to resleeve anyways. Do it right the first time and you wont have to look back in regret, espeicailly when going hardcore with a turbo. Thats my 50 cents on the matter.
And for the people who brag about all this 500+ horsepower stuff on stock sleeves and internals, take into consideration that they dont brag about how long their motor will last. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i do agree with that. do it right the first time, thought it will cost more $$ and time.
So what if that happens to you? You wasted your money on a block guard, labor, and then you will have to resleeve anyways. Do it right the first time and you wont have to look back in regret, espeicailly when going hardcore with a turbo. Thats my 50 cents on the matter.
And for the people who brag about all this 500+ horsepower stuff on stock sleeves and internals, take into consideration that they dont brag about how long their motor will last. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i do agree with that. do it right the first time, thought it will cost more $$ and time.
06-11-2003, 06:47 PM
#17
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (sweet)
Nice darton sleeves. What's this **** about Real Sleeves? Now why are you gonna go knock my setup like that. I just don't understand why people have to knock other people down to try and make their stuff look better.
People should really think before they speak (or type in this case).
On to the subjet at hand again.
Any way you you go you need to do it right whether it be Golden Eagle, Darton, AEBS, Benson or who ever else is now out there.
Good luck on your setup.
People should really think before they speak (or type in this case).
On to the subjet at hand again.
Any way you you go you need to do it right whether it be Golden Eagle, Darton, AEBS, Benson or who ever else is now out there.
Good luck on your setup.
06-11-2003, 06:48 PM
#18
I am a bad person
Re: (93LSivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, if your gonna do it right the first time spend the extra money and get real sleeves. Darton baby!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
who installed them?? they look nice
Yeah, if your gonna do it right the first time spend the extra money and get real sleeves. Darton baby!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
who installed them?? they look nice
06-11-2003, 06:51 PM
#19
I am a bad person
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (intekragsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by intekragsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what if that happens to you? You wasted your money on a block guard, labor, and then you will have to resleeve anyways. Do it right the first time and you wont have to look back in regret, espeicailly when going hardcore with a turbo. [b]Thats my 50 cents on the matter. [b]
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man 50cent is really taking over. he got people changing common saying from .02 cents to .50 cents!!!LOL
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man 50cent is really taking over. he got people changing common saying from .02 cents to .50 cents!!!LOL
06-11-2003, 06:59 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: bay area/socal, CA, USA
Posts: 3,858
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (MotorMatrix.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MotorMatrix.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Man 50cent is really taking over. he got people changing common saying from .02 cents to .50 cents!!!LOL</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cant even buy a gumball with .02 cents! Plus its played out ;P
Man 50cent is really taking over. he got people changing common saying from .02 cents to .50 cents!!!LOL</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cant even buy a gumball with .02 cents! Plus its played out ;P
06-11-2003, 07:01 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: bay area/socal, CA, USA
Posts: 3,858
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (AVATAR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AVATAR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FU$K DARTON ! Golden Eagle BABY !
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What makes you say this? Just because honda-tech is on the golden eagle bandwagon? Personally I would rather have dartons than golden eagle I have right now. Actually I had dartons before
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What makes you say this? Just because honda-tech is on the golden eagle bandwagon? Personally I would rather have dartons than golden eagle I have right now. Actually I had dartons before
06-11-2003, 07:07 PM
#24
I am a bad person
Re: block guard vs. sleeves? (intekragsr)
Its not really a band wagon. GE is just beating the **** out of everyone prices on sleeves and if you cant afford to sleeve a block in the 1st place and you decide to do it some people can only afford GE. I've had my GE's for 3 yrs and they have seen 480whp for 2 yrs,550hp for 6 months, 650+whp for 6 months and never shifted or dropped or failed yet. they work!!! Dartons are very pretty and they work too but the question is can you afford them.
06-11-2003, 07:10 PM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (MotorMatrix.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MotorMatrix.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
who installed them?? they look nice </TD></TR></TABLE>
Our shop has them done. If you send your block to us it'll come back to you looking just like this
I wish I had the CNC machine that does the work on our blocks.
There is gonna be 2 members posting pics just like this of their b18c5's very soon
By the way, I was kidding about my " real sleeves" comment. I should have said if you want the best, then go with darton------this is of course my opinion, and yes my opinion does matter
who installed them?? they look nice
</TD></TR></TABLE>Our shop has them done. If you send your block to us it'll come back to you looking just like this
I wish I had the CNC machine that does the work on our blocks.
There is gonna be 2 members posting pics just like this of their b18c5's very soon
By the way, I was kidding about my " real sleeves" comment. I should have said if you want the best, then go with darton------this is of course my opinion, and yes my opinion does matter