The_Robster

Wich of these two woul handle beter high boos pressures, some pro's and con's of these two would also be great. And could I convine both things???

Danger

i have never heard anything good about block guards . try golden eagle sleeves .

MachAF

Blockguards are good for low boost apps. High boost apps you'll want to get sleeves. Get Dartons, as they can be replaced individually.


[Modified by machaf, 4:02 PM 10/30/2002]

The_Robster

I had darton on mind, but does it make a difference 4 pieces than ono whole thing, or just easier to replace.

POLLO

Block Guard

Pros : Not expensive and somewhat holds the cylinders to a certain point.

Cons: Prone to fail @ high boost levels.


Sleeves:

Pros: You can boost and boost and boost all day long with good tuning w/o worries.

Cons: You can buy 7 block guards for the price of sleeving


hth

X2BOARD

B/G is good for low boost as mentioned, but despite the low cost of ownership, they should be installed by someone experienced as they need to be filed/modified to fit the stock sleeve in a particular manner as they can cause cracking or even distorting of the upper cylinder wall if not installed properly.

Secondly, the best way to install a B/G is to weld it in, which requires you align hone your walls, which require a rebuild anyway !

Sleeves are almost as good as stock and can take crazy abuse, but cost an arm and a leg... plus sleeves, if not installed properly, can still screw up. And there is typcially no guarantee as to the workmanship in their installation.

But if price is no concern.... sleeves are the way to go.

X2

boosted hybrid

Race engineering block guards fit in with NO modification at all. I was very surprised when i installed mine on my recent engine. The guard slipped right into the sleeve jacket, no pushing, tapping, etc. They are machined with very close tolerances, and the brace fit in loosely. This is very important when you install one since the sleeves and blockguard are dissimilar metals, and expand at different rates. The aluminum has to have space to expand (block guard material), since aluminum is very temperature dependent material. If you install a block guard and have to tap it in, you can actually create a clamping force on the sleeve, not allowing the piston to travel optimally in the sleeve and cracking occurs. Blockguards work very well if you install them right, or just buy a race engineering one for 100.00 and be done with them. I have used them in my past two engines and they work well. My last b16a saw 18psi till i spun a rod bearing, but the sleeves never cracked. My current poor man's itr engine is going to see 1 bar on pump, and 20lbs on race gas stock internals. They do work, but for longevity of an engine go with sleeving.

X2BOARD

Yes, the Race Eng B/G's are great pieces, but the fact that it just slipped in on your block is a fluke, tolerances are not exact on all blocks, so this will not happen for everyone. I've seen Race B/Gs that need to be reduced to fit well. As said, if the B/G must be tapped in or if it fits really snug... that's not good, a good B/G, or one prepped properly should just drop right in, like it was a stock part.

The_Robster

I made my mind I'll go with the sleeves, since longevity of my engine is my priority. Now what brand do you guys recomend, so far I've only heard of golden eagle and darton sleeves, I can get the set of darton's for $560 but I don't know how much golden eagle are worth, and also wich of those two have better, quality, ressistance and bolt-on fitment. The'll be going in to a B18c engine.


[Modified by The_Robster, 11:27 PM 10/28/2002]

Sonny

To add to that, the Race Eng/Nuformz style blockguards are NOT designed to sit at the top of the sleeve. If you install it that way, you will run into issues with cooling. The coolant holes are quite restrictive:




Per Race Engineering, they are designed to go about 1/2" down from the top of the deck.

I opted not to use a blockguard in my engine (I posted it) because I could not get an STR or Inline Pro style blockguard for the D16A1/ZC:


I believe the STR and Inline Pro style blockguard is a better design because of its "generous" cooling capacity as well as ease of customization. st00pid is a big fan of STR blockguards and he's done some pretty amazing stuff with them.

Like anything in your engine, if you do it right, it will work well. If you do it wrong, you are better to have not done it all! A lot of the horror stories that people have told me about their own blockguards tend to involve pounding it in with a hammer.

Sonny


[Modified by Sonny, 11:31 PM 10/28/2002]

LsTurbo91

I've used the race eng on 2 blocks with no problems. I had to file mine down though.

X2BOARD

How's the posting going for you ? Did you do it yourself ? I've heard 'rumors' of the posts not lining up properly, causing the cylinder walls to lean if not done perfectly.....

Great point on the coolant passages....btw..

Sonny

I haven't fired the engine up yet, but so far, so good. I posted it myself and then had the block bored & honed. The machinist said that everything looked really good.

Details:
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/engine/posted.html

IMO, a good blockguard should be too big to fit inside the passage. You should need to file/grind it down to make a perfect fit. The complaints about the Race Eng and Nuformz guards that I have heard are mainly about the D series guard. For several people, it was too loose on one side and too tight on the other. Not much you can do in that case...

Sonny

SEFIxCivic

GE sleeves are individual also. i dont know where you'd get the idea that they aren't.

Flamenco-T

golden eagle sleeves are individual......where do you get the impression that GE sleeves are all one piece..?

darton sleeves can be replaced individually if needed, that's the only difference...

but both sleeves are individual piece..

stan

SEFIxCivic

kind of hard to believe that GE can't replace a damaged sleeve. Gotta check with Vince to be sure. GE are you out there??? set these people straight!

turbopanda

I don't know about you guys saying blockguards are good for low boost. I've pushed 1.6 bar on my old D16Y8 with stock sleeves and blockguard for 2 weeks straight before i blew up a piston. Opened the engine up, sleeves were still fine, just replaced that one piston, and I was back on the road again. Is that low boost?

Blockguards get a bad name from people who don't get them installed properly, or dont get holes drilled into them according to the holes in your head gasket (hence the reason why so many people say they make your engine overheat). You don't just drop it in and away you go..

I've used blockguards all my life, and they've worked for me. My Civic when it was turbo was boosting 1.2-1.3 bar daily, with daily beatings, and I never had any problems with overheating or my sleeves. My integra is being built at the moment, and I've had a blockguard made for it too (b20B engine).

If you got the cash for sleeves, go for it, but if not, i'm sure a blockguard would work just fine.

Flamenco-T

I don't think GE sleeves have any reason to be replace.....

well for one, a few problems I heard about darton is the sleeve shifted under boost which require to be replace. honestly I am not too familiar with darton's at al...

ladysman

Sonny, Would you recommend an STR blockguard for a D16Z engine then?


[Modified by ladysman, 4:40 PM 10/29/2002]

Hayasa15

can you post the block and use a blockguard?

1.8T_EG

i am planning on rebuildint my block this winter... not sure if i am gonna go blockguard or sleeves... its kinda $$$ dependant though...

Elite Hatch

Blockgaurds seem to work pretty well. They are very very cheap compaired to Sleeves, yet they are 2 different things. Blockguards do help alot but they arent the same as sleeves. Sleeves are def. the better way to go, but if you dont have the money a blockgaurd is a very good alternative. All of the block gaurds seem equal to me, I havent had any problems with overheating with a Nu Formz

hatchy

Has anyone ever cracked a GE sleeved block?

TeStUdO

my blockgaurd has worked fine for 2 years, no cooling problems but im only running 8psi.

MachAF

Thats what I meant .. dartons can be replaced individually. Sorry for the confusion.


[Modified by machaf, 4:05 PM 10/30/2002]