TheShocker

I have heard bad things about block guards but have also heard some good things. Does anyone here have any experience with any blockguards, be they Nuformz or STR? From what I've heard the Nuformz coolant holes are too small and cause overheating and head temps to rise. From the photo of the STR unit I posted it looks like it'd flow better.


Thanks in advance!

-Seth


[Modified by miac1, 12:19 AM 12/15/2001]

Incognito

I run that STR (they got bought out by AC Autotechnica or something) block guard in my turbo LS/VTEC. Haven't had any cooling problems. I like this design better than other ones out there, because it looks like it lets more coolant through, and also this blockguard fits more snug then other brands.

TheShocker

Can you share some more about your set-up with the blockguard? I appreciate it!

Thanks
-Seth

greyzone

This ought to stir up the controversy...this comes from an old post but the same old arguments go on...

The block gaurds benefits far outweigh the risks. If block gaurds were truly not allowing the top of the cylinder walls proper cooling (common knock on block gaurds), then engines WITH block gaurds would be failing AT that spot and be having other problems specifically in that area. So far, I havent heard any complaints about this happening, so it seems to me this argument about “loss of cooling area leading to damage” is all theoretical without ANY specific proof, yet it is PROVEN that block gaurds DO prevent the top of cylinder walls from blowing out, if, God forbid, you experience detonation ESPECIALLY combined with higher levels of boost.

For all the people knocking block gaurds, tell me what problems you are seeing that are CAUSED by block guards? There are none (unless they were not installed correctly), just a bunch of theoretical opinion. Its too easy to say, “No no, less cooling means hot metal, so its not good, bad bad block gaurd” but if cooling is still GOOD ENOUGH and the top of the cylinder wall is reinforced, then it becomes a moot point.

It must however ALWAYS be said, don’t forget the importance of GREAT tunning to prevent the problem in the first place, which is really detonation, and remember, detonation at 6psi is NOT nearly as dangerous as the same detonation at 11psi or 15psi...

Of course sleeving is better:
Its a no brainer to say sleeving is better, but whats the cost difference? Sleeving over a 1,000, block gaurd under 200, that makes a big difference to some people.

I turboed my motor at 85,000 miles, it now has 130,000 and is still running exceptionally strong....I take excellent care of the fuel system and keep it finely tuned. I also run higher boost at night, when the air is cooler, etc. yeah, I’m that **** about it.

A block gaurd does NOTHING to PREVENT detonation, it is only designed to stengthen the top of the cylinder wall, where Hondas have a tendancy to crack under higher boost pressures coupled with detonation...

If block gaurd is installed CORRECTLY overheating is NOT a problem and strength IS added to the weaker top area of the cylinder wall.

The block guard is only a 1/4" thick so were not talking about a huge amount of space thats not getting coolant to it. The block guard also has holes which allow coolant to pass through the head gasket up to the head. These holes in the block guard line up exactly with the holes in the headgasket (which again allow for coolant flow up to the head). If the block guard is NOT installed correctly, these holes will not line up and the result is overheating since the coolant flow is restricted; THAT is the souce of most of the rumors and opinions about block gaurd overheating, however, this problem is due to installer incompetence, not block gaurd malfunction.

Honda cylinder walls OFTEN do crack and/or blow right at the very top next to the head with forced induction, block guards DO help to prevent this with little to no downside risk...

But you watch, someones gonna say Im crazy and don't know what Im talking about....so this debate seems it will continue on, BUT, the opposition to my arguments are getting weaker with each passing day as block gaurds CONTINUE to hold up, PASSING the ultimate test....ENDURANCE over time.

So bring it on



[Modified by greyzone, 8:17 AM 12/15/2001]

LsTurbo91

i second that, I live in 95% weather in the summer and had no cooling problems with mine. I have a race engineering block guard - $99


[Modified by LsTurbo91, 4:17 AM 12/15/2001]

Prelussion

Could someone please post pics of their blockgaurd installed, $99 seems like a small price to pay for more protection, figuring rod and pistons together would cost over $600

b18cTurbo

lol for my post

TheShocker

Thanks for posting all that info. Who sells the Race Engineering blockguard? And does Race Engineering have a web site? I'd like to compare their design with the other two mentioned.

Thanks again

-Seth

LsTurbo91

Here ya go: http://www.raceeng.com/ShowSuppliers...=IMP&subcat=BK

LsTurbo91

Its not a direct fit, they made it that way so you have to trim it a little with a grinder or sandpaper. That way it fits on there snugly rather than the blockguard floating around. I installed mine .25" below the deck to allow more coolant flow rather than the blockguard meet the head as a safety precaution from what i've heard about "cooling issues"

Zeus

...not a bad idea...

TurboTypeR98

So what keeps the blockguard in place once it is installed? Is it welded in or just dropped in?

turbopanda

here's a pic of my blockguard (homemade) made out of 9mm thick aluminium, 1 piece.



no overheating problems, and its strong. so strong that i can boost over 1 bar. mine was not "welded" in, but rather wedged in evenly around the cylinder walls.

Prelussion

Please tell us a little more on how you made your blockgaurd

TurboTypeR98

since it is wedged in, couldn't it slide down. Or does it fit snug enough that it will not move?

turbopanda

yeah it fits snug.

how to make it? well I didn't make it myself, my mechanics made it - basically made a stencil, had the aluminium piece cut, then drilled holes lined up with the gasket, and shaved the edges of the blockguard until it fit snug. It may not look as nice as an STR, but it costed me a fraction of the price, and it does its job.

JJ-Built

hey there...
2 months after i turbo charged my cx with the F-max kit i cracked the block due a bad delta gate waste gate. my boost spiked to 24 lbs which lifted the cyl. head. coolant mixed with high cyl. pressure on the power stroke, the #1 cyl. sleeve gave. 3" line crack on the intake side on #1 cyl. now it's all fine i had the deltagate replaced with tial wastgate and currently using STR block guard. so far i have no overheating. i have the block guard for about 1.5 year now and my engine is still running strong...

greyzone

I dont believe this, something must be wrong here. So far no one is slaming block gaurds and saying how terrible they are.

This is truly a first.

willyboyK20

so to put it in all you do is wedge it in tightly or weld

greyzone

Theres a lot of talk about welding in blockgaurds but I dont believe either manufacturer (NuForms or STR) recommends doing that...they tap in evenly and snugly into place and stay positioned...that is how they are "suppossed" to be installed.

With correct installation no honing, sanding, grinding or welding should be required. (Im referring to the brands listed above).


[Modified by greyzone, 5:22 AM 12/16/2001]

sgT

People spend so much effort making sure the combustion chamber is smooth
making sure the piston tops are sanded smooth. Why? To prevent hot spots
from causing detonation. What a blockguard does it keep coolant from getting
to the top of the cylinder. This creates a large hot spot around the top of the
cylinder. This increases the chances for detonation to occur and invites it.

At what point do you say that the blockguard becomes necessary??
Most of the turbo guys I know boost upwards of 24psi with no blockguard
with no problems and for a long time now.

I have seen my share of blown motors and I can tell you that the cylinder will
crack with or without the blockguard. I have seen it happen more than once.

Also, I have to bring up something that larry(too) said. Now dont take this
the wrong way because Im not a TOO fanatic, but what he said makes sense.

4G H22a was Closed deck. Had probably the largest injectors of any honda at
around 330-350cc(i dont remember the exact figure at the moment). 200hp
output

When Honda designed the 5g, they went to open deck and 290cc injectors and
increased the power output to 220hp.

"Now for all you guys who are so find of closed decks. perhaps you should consider this....first Honda spares no expense in casting engine components. They reverted to a closed deck on the H series engine at one time and quickly learned their lesson. The engine required more fuel and less timing (all for the wrong reasons) and it wasn't as clean per EPA standards. "

Honda made more power with less fuel. And we all know that honda likes to run
real close to 100% duty cycle on their injectors.

Im not going to argue this, you will believe what you want.

I say use what you want, its your money and Im not going to change your mind.
I myself will never use a blockguard.

Ray

All I can say is, I was running a blockguard before and had overheating problems. Once I took it off it, no more cooling problems.

Arturbo

sgT, I made the almost the exact some post in the last block guard thread. No one listened so I didnt reply to this one. Im slowly learning the thermal conductivity of different metals, but especaily aluminum so I can come up with a formula to prove that block guard will not work. My study hasnt had me come with an easy formula but hopefully I'll come up with something. arrrrggghhhhh..

art

greyzone

Right on. Good to hear from the other side. Your points are understandable, but in the final analysis only time will solve this one...so far, users with blockgaurds are willing the test on time.

This ongoing debate reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw re: abortion, but I'll reword it for this:

"If you don't believe in blockgaurds, don't use one."

But I BELIEVE those of us that are using them BOOST HIGHER SAFER LONGER, that, for my money is well worth it.

Art...a temp probe inserted at block top would sure be a good way to find out, maybe one of these companies can (or has done) that?

And, uh, RAY, the ONLY way that can happen is if the blockgaurd is installed incorrectly...the type of overheating we're discussing here would not read on your typical gauges as its specific to the top of the cylinder walls due to reduced coolant contact with metal.



[Modified by greyzone, 5:38 AM 12/16/2001]

Ray

and, uh GREYZONE. How do you install a blockguard incorrectly? I was running a nuformz snug fit and label up and all, just because I had a bad experience with a blockguard, dont assume i installed it incorrectly just because your running ok with one.