Calm down everyone...

Now, what I would like to do is some how measure the temp at TDC during combustion. Im not a Endyn fanatic either but Larry has these things that measure Pressure at TDC where maximum pressure and heat is at. Just the same place the block guard is.hmmmm. Ive seen his(larry) car and those things are bad ***!! Not the car but the sensors to measure the pressure at TDC.

art

 

Its funny because he also says the exact opposite on this post: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/blo...dification.htm

 

how is anything opposite?

 

on some posts Larry will say blockguards is a POS, and the other "the concept is a really good one"

 

...Larry said that in 1998(in the 1400's we thought blood letting was a good thing too), and his modified cylinder brace was in a whole different ball game than one that doesn't disapate heat at the top of the cylinder. At the very least, a "standard block gaurd" will reduce your tuning window... it is not a complex concept as to why. Can you get away with it, of course. Is it the best choice, probably not... Would I run one? Depends...

 

I don't really see what would be different in 1998 than in 2001? did the blockguards get any worse in 2001 for him to form a different opinion? He was using a Nuformz Blockguard that he modified unless i missed something.

 

Sorry Ray, no dis intended...point is the only possible way a block guard can CAUSE overheating (that registers on your gauge) is when the holes in the blockgaurd DO NOT line up with the holes in the headgasket. You need label up AND towards the front of car. A problem with older blockgaurds was they wern't marked "FRONT" and so many people would place them in label UP, but the label would be towards the rear. THis caused hole mis-alignment and overheating due to restricted coolant flow. This actually happened to quite a few people before they caught the problem, hence the reason blockgaurds started getting a bad rap for overheating. Gotta figure your chances of getting it right were only 50/50 cause the directions didn't address this issue, other than "label up."

The guy that owns NuFormz has since marked blockgaurds with the word "FRONT" sstamped onto the side that not only goes up, but towards the front to match with coolant flow.

Those are the facts. So, if you're block gaurd was installed correctly (UP and FRONT) then the overheating was a coincidence that could not have been caused by the blockgaurd since it would not have reduced coolant flow enough to overheat at the gauge.

This is a well tested issue...so there ya have it. Its not your "fault" it was poor quality instructions from the manufacturer, you just inadvertantly paid the price.

 

hmm, thats interesting, but if he had presumingly installed it the other way doesn't it have the same holes on the other side? Correct me if I'm wrong because I've never seen a Nuformz Blockguard

 

Nevermind I found a pic of one: You may be right about it being installed backwards, might have been a possibility

Nuformz Blockguard:


Race Engineering Blockguard:


I'd like to compare the 2 blockguards, you can definitely a see the difference, it looks like the nuformz has still has coolant passages blocked off even if installed correctly.


[Modified by LsTurbo91, 12:34 AM 12/16/2001]

 

The coolant ports are actually aligned a bit differently between the front of the block vs. the rear...thats also why the headgasket can only go on one way, to correctly accomodate coolant flow.

I reversed the blockgaurd (label towards back) just to check it out and many of the coolant flow holes didn't line up correctly.

It really sucks for all those who had to learn this the hard way, and really through no fault of their own.

 

interesting, I dont remember how it was installed label at front or back(it was years ago), plus I sold the blockguard. So I have nothing more to add.

 

LSTurbo91...

Its funny because he also says the exact opposite on this post: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/blo...dification.htm


yes.. i agree with you on that one because i used the same procedure when i installed my STR block guard. if you look at the STR b.g. the wedge shape matches the coolant passage of the honda gasket. as for the NUformz and race engineering b.g. to me they look so identical even the coolant hole line's up, this type of block guard could theoriotically not perform as good as the STR due to the small hole coolant passage. if this type of block guard is use 1/8" below the deck of the block, proper coolant bleeding needs to be perform otherwise an air pocket could arise from the small coolant hole in the B.G. and the surface area between the head gasket. honda is good at having air pocket after coolant bleeding, even if you loosen up the bleeder valve it's not enough. honda even discontinued the bleeder valve in some of their new models.

 

Wanna know my opinion of block guards...

Here's my Block. I trust em well enough to use em.





[Modified by SiR Kid, 11:58 AM 12/16/2001]

 

I like the looks of that STR blockgaurd...Im kind of torn between the NuForms I have vs. the STR as the STR looks as though it would provide better cooling...but I still wonder if theres enough strentgh offered in the narrower parts of the STR blockgaurd or if detonation might force its strength toward the weaker part of the blockgaurd and still crack anyway...I guess thats arguably a good trade-off for the potentially better cooling ability offered by the STR. It would be interesting to see if the STR protected block (cylinder) cracks, is it at that narrow point of the blockgaurd?

I would still like to see some temp probes inserted into these engines to know for sure and put this issue to bed...oh well. THis has been a really good thread discussing this issue. The pictures are really priceless.


[Modified by greyzone, 10:54 PM 12/16/2001]

 

i bought a newformz blockguard back in 98 when i built my motor. i ran this blockguard for three years & never had any cooling issues, even when making 270hp. recently, i converted my motor to ls-vtec, & decided to modify my blockguard by enlarging the existing cooling holes for additional piece of mind. here's the finished product:


you can see how all the coolant holes match up with the headgasket now.

lastly, here's my opinion on blockguards: i think they are ok to use, but, with the price of GEM sleeves so reasonable, why wouldn't you buy those instead? if i had the option of $650 sleeves back when i first built my motor, i know i definitely would have gone with them.

 

Anyone have pictures of a sleeved block? Im curious about how cooling works in the sleeved block, and why doesnt a sleeved block overheat? Isnt there even less cooling surface after sleeving?? Im just not familiar enough with the "mechanics" of sleeving and would like to know.



[Modified by greyzone, 1:31 AM 12/17/2001]

 

u guys n ur blockgaurds.....blockgaurds....smockgaurds...good tuning is the best medication for open deck.....

 

I have made a poll to go along with this post...here's the link: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=102279

-Seth

 

Im not an expert on block gaurds but to me they seem like nothing but a band aid. They dont actually fix the problem. Block gaurds should not be neccessary in a properly tuned vehicle.. This is a similar concept to blown head gaskets.. Its very common for many people who have blown a head gasket to simply buy a beefed up head gasket that only withstands detonation longer. It does not solve the problem.. Detonation is the real problem and it is the same problem in the situation when using a block gaurd. You should get to the root of the problem first, making getting rid of detonation should be first priority.

 

Well said and true enough...BUT it is in the perfect, ideal world where detonation does not exist and perfect tuning occurs. We don't live or drive in that world. The reality is detonation MAY happen, in spite of our best efforts. So, WHEN and IF detonation occurs, AND if you happen to be at higher levels of boost, having a blockgaurd WILL provide extra protection against cylinder wall fracture. Period.

A blockgaurd is kinda like a rubber, and well, sex is risky enough, boosting shouldn't have to be.

 

LOL! Good point.

 

very well said! also detonation is sometimes not audible to the human ears, so you really never know, thats why its also good to have a j&s safeguard!


[Modified by LsTurbo91, 12:17 AM 12/17/2001]

 

That is soooooooooo true...can't disagree with that one

Im gonna be switching over to MSD BTM soon with a MSD knock sensor and jsut manually (from the cockpit) retard timing under boost when detonation occurs, but thats kinds of want-a-be J&S I gotta admit, so I'm really questioning if I wanna do that or jsut go with J&S

By the way, is J&S compatable with VAFC and GReddy blue box??


[Modified by greyzone, 9:10 AM 12/17/2001]

 

I've heard that the honda cylinders are prone to "shifting" at around 16 PSI. Is that true and would block guard prevent this? With a good rod/piston setup and blockguard what would a resonable level of boost come be? I'm looking to run 15~20 lbs after a re-build including this stuff

Eagle rods
JE/SRP Pistons
Z10 girdle
Crower springs/retainers (maybe turbo cams)
ARP rob bolts
new bearings


Now heres the thingL: EITHER block guard or a GEM resleeving.....if the block guagrd will provide enough rigidity for me to run my target boost level them i'm all for it......

 

hey speedy, with proper tuning, 20-25 psi should be possible on a block guarded block... sky's the limit with a sleeved block tho...