Best Location for WB O2
12-01-2002, 07:39 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (philo)
I put my sensor hole close to my existing primary O2 sensor which is in the downpipe. Before the cat and not too close to the turbo exhaust itself. Hole is capped awaiting a Tech Edge Wideband O2 . Anyone have any inputs on the Tech Edge unit?
Again.....I have an internal wastegate on my Greddy kit.
[Modified by PressurizedSi, 8:50 PM 12/1/2002]
Again.....I have an internal wastegate on my Greddy kit.
[Modified by PressurizedSi, 8:50 PM 12/1/2002]
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12-01-2002, 08:32 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (philo)
techedge 
u may wanna check out the yahoo techedge group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oz-diy-wb/
theres a lot of good info there...there was a recent thread about the 5 wire NTK sensor temp operation range and or location....
"NTK specs say the
sensor can operate at 700 to 950 dC, with a desired temp
of 800 to 850 dC - and the sensor should be hotter than the
temp of the gas it's measuring."
[Modified by javierb14, 9:34 PM 12/1/2002]
u may wanna check out the yahoo techedge group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oz-diy-wb/
theres a lot of good info there...there was a recent thread about the 5 wire NTK sensor temp operation range and or location....
"NTK specs say the
sensor can operate at 700 to 950 dC, with a desired temp
of 800 to 850 dC - and the sensor should be hotter than the
temp of the gas it's measuring."
[Modified by javierb14, 9:34 PM 12/1/2002]
12-01-2002, 08:46 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (javierb14)
Well that sucks cause you would have to set the sensor after the cat to catch sub 800' temps on an FI car.
The readings seem the same as what they were when the sensor was at the end of the downpipe.
The readings seem the same as what they were when the sensor was at the end of the downpipe.
12-01-2002, 08:50 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (EU BATT)
Wrap on sensor looks like DEI tape, Summit has it if you need it. Works well but I would use DEI heat wrap for that applcaition.
12-01-2002, 08:58 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (javierb14)
Hold on... You said 950c... Thats 1742f, I never get anywhere near that. My max EGT measured before the sensor is ~1400.
12-01-2002, 09:10 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (EU BATT)
IMO: the best place for the O2 sensor on an external wastegate setup is where i put it. There is considerable heat loss across the turbo and that affects A/F. A reading before the turbo is better.
[Modified by philo, 12:12 AM 12/2/2002]
[Modified by philo, 12:12 AM 12/2/2002]
12-01-2002, 09:29 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (philo)
from the techedge website, http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm
Wideband Sensor Positioning
The wideband sensor must be carefully placed in order to prevent damage to the sensor itself. Also, if you use the sensor's output directly to drive your ECU then you should be doubly careful. Please follow all of these "rules" :
The sensor should always be placed on the engine side of a catalytic converter, unless you are testing the effectiveness of the convertor itself.
The gas temperature to the sensor should never exceed 850 degrees C (about 1560 degrees Fahrenheit).
The sensor should never be run without power to the WB unit (a hot sensor burns off carbon residues)
Always have the long axis of the sensor perpendicular to the gas flow (stops sensor clogging)
Position the sensor vertically or at most between 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position (this avoids cracking the internal ceramic structure should moisture condense internally)
The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and infers the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines.
AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think.
Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted.
A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, and certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than the engine side.
Wideband Sensor Positioning
The wideband sensor must be carefully placed in order to prevent damage to the sensor itself. Also, if you use the sensor's output directly to drive your ECU then you should be doubly careful. Please follow all of these "rules" :
The sensor should always be placed on the engine side of a catalytic converter, unless you are testing the effectiveness of the convertor itself.
The gas temperature to the sensor should never exceed 850 degrees C (about 1560 degrees Fahrenheit).
The sensor should never be run without power to the WB unit (a hot sensor burns off carbon residues)
Always have the long axis of the sensor perpendicular to the gas flow (stops sensor clogging)
Position the sensor vertically or at most between 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position (this avoids cracking the internal ceramic structure should moisture condense internally)
The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and infers the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines.
AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think.
Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted.
A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, and certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than the engine side.
12-01-2002, 09:41 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (javierb14)
Always have the long axis of the sensor perpendicular to the gas flow (stops sensor clogging)
12-01-2002, 09:52 PM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (philo)
I think it just means like...how the oxygen sensor is, the "long axis" of it is perpendicular to the downpipe..know what i mean?
just dont have the sensor anyway other than that...haha WOW that was a horrible explanation
just dont have the sensor anyway other than that...haha WOW that was a horrible explanation
12-02-2002, 03:58 AM
#22
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (javierb14)
This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines.
AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think.
Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted.
A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, and certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than the engine side.
AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think.
Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted.
A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, and certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than the engine side.
A caveat to your post, and the techedge suggestions, I do not like to mount the sensors purely vertical. Its an issue, though small, with heat transfer to the lead junction area. I suggest they be between 10 degrees and 80 degress to vertical when installed in a horizontal run.
Regards,
BigMoose
12-03-2002, 11:19 AM
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Re: Best Location for WB O2 (BigMoose)
The only thing that concerns me is the accuracy due to the increased pressure, when I dyno I will hookup a wideband sniffer and see what kind of disparity there is between the two. If it is significant I can easily recalibrate my conversion values in my ECU to compensate.
The idea of this mounting location was to give a very low latency reading to the ECU for the O2 feedback function. So far it seems to be working very well.
The idea of this mounting location was to give a very low latency reading to the ECU for the O2 feedback function. So far it seems to be working very well.
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