Balor_Gr

Thanks man
Shimming might work i dont know.Im thinking they made a custom tool that measures the preload like they do on V8 with the head ashembled. Right now i consider my self done with the head. Ill probvably stick with GSR cams and put my money on a good divided setup or test twin turbo we will see.
About the va;lve springs they(FERREA) are confortable with gsr/itr cams at 9500 using the 80lbs spring.Here is the discussion on thei YT channel (they replied )

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ferrea wasn't going to have a problem revving to 9500rpms with the 80lbs seat pressure. That was never an issue. The questions was with which camshaft you were going to use the 80lbs seat pressure. Since it's a GSR/ITR or similar camshaft, no problem there.

Chance EG

Will you still be making power past 8500RPM with the OEM cams?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Really no. Not via the turbocharger. By the time you get to that point, you're already dropping power past 7500rpms. Even in a Tuner 1. The key is keeping torque steady and high enough in the rpm range to make it to the next downshift. People ask that all the time, and the answer usually is just based upon the camshaft and the heads ability to utilize CFM of air.

Balor_Gr

Ive had the priviledge to ride inside some crazy small turbo setups here. Its the way its done really here around.
If you manage the torque not to drop a LOT as the rpm rises you keep the hp acceptable. A car that has 600hp at 9000 and 400hp at 7000 has the same effective powerband with someone that has 500 hp 7000 to 9000 with a droping torque.
The difference is the first guy will race people with 700hp and i can guaranty you the secong car probably will be also faster lower from 7000 rpm due to beeing more efficient on the midrange.The numbers are random as i wont be able to hit those numbers probablym. Just giving an example.
What ill do it will be a later decision. I have the correct people that will be able for me to make the car awd for a very very reasonable price because most them are "friends" or customers. Im not sure., like at all how this car will end up.
Its another wonderfull journey.

Balor_Gr

What im trying to say is that turbocharger is bigger factor than cams where power will be. The ratio betwin the size of turbine wheel and the size of compressor wheel pays a big role.
Turbine wheel heavy turbos generate more torque on the turbine shaft on each exhaust pulse because of the bigger lever.This makes them keep the volumetric efficiency of the engine ,(engine here is ICE + turbo as a single unit) higher or the rpm when compressor heavy turbos crap on higher rpm creating all short of power loosing problems.
Plus ill be 84x77 and thats a lot bore/stroke , bore heavy that actually tends to keep the power on higher rpm. Add to that the 1.75 rod/ stroke. The THEORY says it will keep at least OK power all the way to 9500. Imo the stock throttle body+intake mani will hit the performance more. But we will see.

Balor_Gr

Last ferrea parts arrived. Now i have the full set valves, valve spgings , valve guides , valve spring seats , locks , seals ,retainers.
Im waiting on some final parts like to deside on clutch and injectors and im good to go.




The only thing holding me back budget wise is this.The single malt scotch. Ahhh an old love strikes back.
I guess its the only thing we are probably buying cheaper in europe. Ill get an Octomore next and be done with good scotch until i start the car.
Btw if someone want some scotch advise feel free to ask.

Balor_Gr

I found out my mechanic had this laying around for himself.
I came back with a gun to get it. He didnt want to sell it.
Some negotiations and 300 euros later:

Balor_Gr

This changed the never ending build i guess.
Ill go 84x87 or 89 what ever crank i manage to find in better condition b18c or b20.

Chance EG

No replacement for displacement. Especially stroke.

k20z1ej1

My brother and step brother are big scotch drinkers. The best/most expensive ones we keep around are Lagavulin and Glen Livet French Oak Reserve, both of which i found very tasty even though im not a regular scotch drinker. Im always on the look out for good bottles for their birthdays etc.. Any recommendations? Whats your favorite scotch under, say, $100?

Balor_Gr

If you liked the Lagavulin 16yo youll like the arbeg 10 , ardbeg uigeadail(very good the one in the picture.Very strong. Id call it P-TRIM haha) , Laphroig 10 , bruichladdich port charlotte Islay Barley , Kaol ila 12 (best value for money out there imo). If you like the whisky to taste finer/easier find Glen Scotia 15yo(very good). Unless you know what your doing id stay away fron non age statement versions of the above and in general. And dont forget to add a tiny bit of water. Like not a full tea spoon.And before swallowin taste it with whole the tongue.
Edit: i forgot the very good Glencadam 15 i got lately. Very very nice.

Balor_Gr

Well alltho i dont want to admit it most of the times yes. Better get a bigger motor.

k20z1ej1

thanks man! ill definitely try one of those next time I pick up a bottle at the store

Balor_Gr

145 euros and one month later 9310 pins arrived. The 9310 827-2250-20CP3C
Its odd the off the shelf pins for 7017 pistons supposed to be 827-2250-20CP1C aka same thickness pin, just different material but after measuring them i got:
9310 ~5,4 mm > 0.02 inch
Off the shelf pin: 4.6 -> 0.018 inch

Is it me or pistons had wrong pins? Maybe i got an early batch? Im wondering if pistons even got mislabled... fuark. Ill measure them tommorow.

Balor_Gr

Go-autoworks hooked me with these babes.







They look sturdy AF and heavy too. Paired with 625 plus.
Since this is honda technical, "why 625+" :

LS/vtec setup @ 9300rpm mean piston speed 2290 fps ~ 698 m/s
B16 h-beam rods arp2000 setup @ 9300rpm mean piston speed 1992 fps ~ 607 m/s

Kinetic energy KE = 1/2 x WEIGHT x SPEED^2

B16 with h-beams + sc7017 pistons weight 535 + 307 = 842 grams (im not calculating pins because i dont have a really good scale to weight them)
LSvtec with Manley TT + sc7017 pistons 555 + 307 = 862 grams

LSVTEC kinetic energy 209985 joules
B16 with h-beams 155117 joules. again without calculating the heavier pin you ll use with manley TT

At the same rpm LSVTEC with the heavier manley TT rods and higher mean piston speed due to lower rod stroke ratio
creates at least 35% more tension to the rod bolts. To create the same tension with the hbeam/arp2000 B16 you must rev the engine to 10500.
Would you trust the apr2000 to 10500?

My calculations may be off but you get what i mean...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hey, it doesn't matter what we think. As long as your peace-of-mind has been fulfilled. Ya know? No one has ever said that "over building" is bad. That's what Honda B-series engines are all about. Over-engineered concepts.

Balor_Gr

I know i know im putting it here in case someone likes some ghetto physics and because EVERYONE is asking me the same haha.
And now that i think about it piston speed wont be affected by rod / stroke ratio. Only piston acceleration/ decceleration (aka bye bye rod bolts) will be affected by r/s ratio and thats also much worse on the LSVTEC.

BTW the rods are not small as they look. I have big hands haha.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Oh I know all about those I beams. I have Pauter x-beams I'm using on this next build.

R/S ratio or just the math. You'll be fine, but realize that 9500rpms isn't needed when you increase stroke anyway. I don't know why you're so into that rpm number

Autoworks

Balor_Gr

If you are interested on why the new pins are thicker AND different material from the boxed ones, its because CP shipped "some"

Quote:

" The standard free pins we include do have the possibility of changing from time to time if we run out of a certain pin."

pistons with 0.0018" wall pin.
At least thats what they said on my "wtf is going on here" mail.
Thaks god i ordered the upgraded pin...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Oh,we know why, and it is recommended anytime higher compression pistons are used in turbocharged applications to have the thicker wristpin. There was a writeup with a fellow member that made that suggestion about 3-4 years ago, and basically created a new standard.

Chance EG

What would you consider "higher compression" at this point in time for pump gas applications? Standard forged internals seem to be pretty bullet proof within reason up to 11:1, discounting other variables.

Balor_Gr

I got 3-4 year pistons then haha.

Its all about in the hands.
An 900whp E30 BMW will result the average joe's death very soon.
The same car in the hands "put your favourite racedriver here" is a nice big toy.
CPU tuner's hands and end users useage will change what is reliable a lot.

Imo i still believe higher compression is just a gimmick. It more of something you brag about than something it really helps you with spool or anything.
If you REALLY need the highest possible power per pound, get a 300cfm head

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

And I will easily let you to continue to believe that, if you'd like. .

​​​​​in the U.S., for turbocharged applications, 10.0:1 and higher is considered "higher compression" for use. What you don't see of that most manufacturers of pistons who sell them include pistons made for light weight, using a thinner walled piston pin. Not the ones with thicker walls to help with the increased cylinder pressures that turbocharged applications present. The piston construction is the same whether it is higher compression or not. ( if you doubt my explanation, take a look at a wiseco piston catalog, and see the wrist pin part numbers they show in a separate column. Certain poisons for intended use, use a different wrist pin. ) Once people understood the benefits of higher compression in combination with turbocharger, those manufacturers stated offering options for wrist pins because they understood their initial intent to use changed.

Not that cylinder head flow isn't important (it obviously is or Honda b-series VTEV heads wouldn't get the attention they do), higher compression alone isn't enough to "make magic", as you believe that we think higher compression turbo setups can perform. We know that it is the combination that works, but contrary to what your experience has led you to believe, porting & polishing to get over 300c.f., isn't necessary to get the desired results.

So, many of us know being at higher compression than what most are used to for turbocharging is not hype... If you don't believe in it, it's ok. No one will misjudge you.