TacomanSI

Well just got back from the dyno with my friend and not happy with the numbers at all. We need some advice from the tuning gods. the JRSC was installed a month ago with the 6lb pulley. it laid down 195whp with CTR cams. Since then we have removed the CTR cams and went with the MVM pulley. We went down to Intec racing and got it tuned. they were only able to get 201/144 out of it on 11lbs. They said the injectors are maxed out but some of you guys running the same setup are making more power on 6lbs then i am now. Let me list what the car has.

B16a2
JRSC 11lbs
RC 440's
uberdata
DC header
AEM V2
thermal exhaust
hondata IM gasket
B&M command flow.
walbro 255lhp

When I got there they were in the process of tunning. The owner of the car had been there alread for 4 hours. Now correct me if i am wrong but when you have ubberdata you no longer need the FMU? They were still tuning with both hooked up and said they were getting incosistant A/F every other pass. Now when i got there they said the 440's were maxed at 120% duty cycle and they were going to try and trouble shoot why they were getting only 201whp. They said the car was just eating fuel like crazy. (Maybe cause the FMU was still hooked up too?) they were going to disconnect the FMU and see what would happen. When they did that it went right away to super lean and could not get the car enough fuel. Needless to say they hooked the FMU back up and tried to see if the FPR was faulty. One and a half hour later they come out and say the FPR is fine and they disconected the FMU and the got 205whp out of it but the 440's are maxed and he needs to upgrade to 750 or something around there.


We need to know the next step to go from here. I have the dyno but its up in my car. I will post that tomorrow. It's late and i do not feel like going out in the garage. Don't you think the 440's should be able to handle this load. There are guys running turbo cars on 440's laying down over 250whp. What would be our next step?


Thanks in advance

PS by any means are we not ******* on intec racing just disappointed in the car is all.




Modified by TacomanSI at 8:06 AM 5/29/2005


Modified by TacomanSI at 8:07 AM 5/29/2005

O3DigitalBath

wow yea 440s should be good for close to the 300whp mark

Tad

MAN no!
that fmu is not supposed to be hooked up still if you're tuning with any programable engine management/bigger injectors!!

shoulda dumped all the JR fuel stuff before going to the dyno.
you don't still have the iat hack/pressure switch setup on there do you?

also I probably would have tried seeing if ctr cams made good power before putting
the stockers back in.

also some gains can be had with adj cam gears.

if you made 195on 6psi, adding another 5psi should definetely have netted alot more than 6hp

and yes your 440's should do the job fine

leed

Dumb Q', but where is the MAP sensor hooked up? I recently helped a guy out and set him up on CROME. First thing I noticed on the first rip was the Dlogging was NOT reporting boost. Popped the hood and the OBD1 Map sensor was still on the TB. Yup, might as well of had it mounted on the end of the filter lol.
Also, his car was on a stock fuel pump, and at about 4500 it was starting to dump pressure. Air fuel went to **** and the 2d fuel curve had the 'fuel pump' taper to it.



Lower boost levels showed the normal TQ falling off on this LS. 7+ psi boost levels and you can see where the fuel pump was dumping and the 2d curve does not follow the tq curve of the motor.

Id toss the FMU for sure, as the higher pressures are probably actualy reducing the total flow avaiable from the pump.
Curious if they logged the IAT? I noticed with this setup on a 70deg day, the IAT was pegged at 190* +, no matter what the driving conditions. Also, noticed that just from moving from 6psi-ish to 10psi a dramatic amount of timing had to come out to keep it from pinging. Those things are freakin giant space heaters lol.
Curious as to how much timing that B16 wanted at 10psi? Musta been pretty dam low.
Good luck with it.

SlowReaction

Do you know the name of the tuner? At 11psi on jrsc there no way you would be at 120% duty cycle.

TacomanSI

Dave for sure he would have loved to have you tune his car but you were just super busy and he ate a belt. He had to have intec toss a new one on there. I think the tuners name was wade. The FMU is no longer on there after 250 bucks later they pulled the FMU off. I am about to run upstairs and get the chart. We did not get any .bin files tho Forgot to put on there he has STR cam gears too but they never touched them.

Now dave you are thinking that there is something hooked up wrong to the map sensor? I do not think any timing was pulled. They just told us to start with bigger injectors and remove the cat to get to his goal of 230ish on 11lbs.


Modified by TacomanSI at 8:11 AM 5/29/2005

scttydb411

fmu needs to be off and map needs to be tapped post charger in the manifold. the higher boost you go the fewer hp/lb you'll make. you'll possibly have to pull a little more timing since they aren't intercooled and blow more hot air robbing of power. the biggest mistake is that no one taps the map sensor at the manifold on these. the setup you have never hits boosted tables and the fmu takes over when it gets a boost reference from the manifold.

sharkcohen

440s are way more than this car needs, something is wrong. Remove the FMU and any JR electronics. Make sure the MAP sensor can see both vacuum AND boost.

TacomanSI

FMU has been removed and we will work on the map sensor. But he really does not want to spend another 300 on tunning for 11whp.

_gurusan_

sounds like your tuners don't know ****.

Boltz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scttydb411 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the higher boost you go the fewer hp/lb you'll make.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not true, it all depends on the efficiency range of the turbo.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scttydb411 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the setup you have never hits boosted tables and the fmu takes over when it gets a boost reference from the manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im suprised the "tuner" didn't realize this while tuning the map. It should be quite obvious for anyone to notice that this boosted setup wasnt hitting any boost cells while tuning

TacomanSI

heh i told him to wait on leed and just not drive the car. I guess things like this happen.

sharkcohen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boltz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not true, it all depends on the efficiency range of the turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
We aren't talking about a turbo in this thread.

B18Flip

aren't the a/f ratios too lean??

TacomanSI

I followed him home in my car and he got on the freeway and just got on it alittle bit and i could smell all the gas in my car. I think he is runing super rich. they did around 40 passes on the dyno and that sheet above was before the FMU was off. after they took the FMU off they got it to 205whp but we did not get that sheet.

leed

I dont know all the guys that work at Intec, but from the little expsosure Ive had there, they are deff. not stupid. Theres deff. some talent and experience there. Im sure the MAP sensor is in the right place. I was just throwing that out there. Gotta check the dumb easy to look over stuff ya' know.

Tad

From the sounds of this, it makes me want to think the tuner is at fault.

but really, you should have your car setup RIGHT without any problems BEFORE you go to get it tuned.
having an fmu connected AND bigger injectors AND bigger fuelpump.. what's that all about!?

also, you said 40passes and they didn't even touch the timing??

(btw 250bux for 40 passes is a pretty good deal, even if you did only end up with 205)

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

i have a bin from an 8lb b16 JRSC setup if u want it... the fuel / ign curves should be good to 11 psi (stock map sensor max)

lmk if u want it, i think it made 220/155 or so

here u go, graph and bin both in the thread

http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/foru...14433

btw that midrange a/f is scuuuurry

el arbi

Damn..that is pretty low.

scttydb411

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sharkcohen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We aren't talking about a turbo in this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly...he is already at the upper end and creeping out of the efficiency range. my statement applied to this particular situation...not turbo's or even larger chargers.

TacomanSI

dave was not bad mouthing intec. just very disapointed in the car is all. We poped the hood today and the map sensor/vacuum is going to the nipple on the back end of the charger. the other nipple is were the boost gauge is hooked up. Does that sound right? 40+ passes and he cut him a deal on 1 free hour of time is a hella good deal. I think intec and ourselfs are just stumped.

Yes the FMU was suppose to come off when the 440's and the uberdata went in. I was not around when that all went on or i would have said something to the owner of the car. I think Mike will be trying to get in touch with you Leed to see about a retune and see if you can maybe you can take a look at everything.