JWjDM

i cant really decide what i want to do,I have some money i can play with,7k!

Most of all i really want to make a wise decision,which is why i write this,I know it all comes down to what i want to do,but it helps to see peoples opinions,sometimes i over look the better choice,so id like the make the right choice by getting more performance (major power gain) then anything else.

I have a EM1 With the Stock B16A2 with 72,000 Miles
As for what i want to use this car for...
The truth im not looking to use it for any type of AutoX,Drag,Etc. racing!
Its my Daily Driven kind of car and by no means my beater!
I love and Enjoy driving my car,but its just about that time to Turbo the car
Ill be honest i like nothing more then to destroy peoples Ego's!
Ill leave it at that!

So I though alot about the H22 Type S But then i started to think what if i where to invest the $7,000
that i would of Invested ($4,000) for the H22,and Instead build up the B16 for Turbo! thats were im stuck on right now..

Would i be able to "Completely" Build,turbo,Tune my B16 with $7,000 or Less
Or Would it be better to swap the H22,But if i do the Swap that would only leave
me with 3k to work with!

I feel that if i were to do the B16,Id be able to buy Full Race Pro Street Stage 2
and be able to build the b16!


What Would you Do??? Id really like to know your thoughs and opinions.
Thanks you for taking the time!

boostdeliquent

Since it's your DD, I'd pick up a B18A/B block and build that then find an extra B16 head and build it. That way you won't have any substantial downtime. Build it up and then make a DIY turbo kit for it. I know these guys: http://www.blaastperformance.c...rgers

have some good turbo's and don't charge a ton. You'd then just need a manifold, wastegate, FMIC, etc. After that find the rest of the turbo components and go from there. You should be able to make some good power w/ out even spending the entire 7 you have. Just take the extra and play the stock market or something. At any rate good luck w/ the build.

Oh, not to mention you could probably sell your stock B16 to make up some of the cost of the built LS VTEC. Either that or keep it lying around as a spare.

hyabusa hunter

H22 all the way, think of the torque you will have, plus 2.2 vtec, ok it might not rev has high, but hey. with 7k, turbo it! full-race style why do you want a h22a7/8? you can pick up a h22a for a load cheaper. some pistons.....hint hint hint

boostdeliquent

I would have said go w/ the H22 as well but then he's going to have to buy mounts, a conversion harness, etc. and then he'll still need to build the block and do the same things. W/ a built LSVTEC or even a B20VTEC it'll just drop right in. Then all he'd have to do is bolt on the turbo kit, mount the IC, and then fab the piping for it.

Personally I'm working on a Turbo H23 for my CRX but economically speaking he'd make the same power, cheaper w/ a B. On another note, unless he's shooting for some absurd numbers, he could always turbo the stock B16 he has now and make 300 w/ ease and safely on a good tune.

OK, with that said, what would you consider as more power for DD?

zexxbo

if youre thinking h22, just crap the difference out and get the k20
or option b, get the peakboost kit instead of full-race, that way youll have enough for sleeves and maybe a clutch kit


Modified by zeimbo at 1:48 AM 1/4/2007

BlackBeastEK

yeah im with you on that one k20 or else just build your b16 turboed i woulnt go h22a my opinion

JWjDM

As Far as Down Time Goes!
Im driving my bros M3 at the moment..

ok so i here what your sayin about the H22,I guess that makes senses as far as
a Type S goes,It wouldnt make senses to get that kind of H22 if i would Rear build it for lower Compression...

I got quoted 3,200 to drop(engine and install) it into my EM1!
So that would leave me with around 3,800 and i wouldnt be able to Build up the engine,turbo,tuning,etc..

As for a K20,Im sure that would set me back even more the H22 as far as money goes...

It would be my daily on and off,But as far as What id like to see out of it,Im Shooting For 280-320 HP with the chance to up the psi in the future for more and not having to worry about the Engine not being ready for it!

nikolai.

if you are working off a set budget, i would just turbo the motor you have. im putting in an h22 w/ turbo myself now and , i dont care what anyone else here says, theres no way you will get it all done for 7k. Trust me. There's so much **** that will nickel and dime you to death, it's just not worth it. I'd just turbo the B16 youve got that way youve got money left over to cover you after its said and done.

turboparts

K20's are unbelievable compated to the H22 but if you have to pick I would do a H22. Pm if you go that route I know someone who has the H22 Hasport mounts for cheap and new.

JWjDM

So With 7k will i be able to fully build and turbo my b16??
Sorry that i ask this dumb question,its just that i really dont know
what it cost to have all of this done is,Like what kind of prices should i be expecting from a Shop??
I think i once heard someone say that they had there engine built to handle 500HP and it was around 2,000,Id just hate to get ripped of!
Also i live in the Inland Empire and want to know if any of you know of shop
around!
I'd greatly apriciate the help you can give me..

HPOWERHATCH1

i would go with building your b16 for bost than to swap for an h22 its easier and cheaper than the h22. the best you can do with an h power swap is mid to high 13s

deca

im an h22 fan, i had a couple already, but in ur case just work with what you got, i have a friend that boosted his stock b16 and made 330whp.

zexxbo

honestly, you can build a high hp capable motor for relatively cheap. just use the stock sleeves if youre making sub 500hp
eagle rods: $300
cp or arias pistons $400+-
ferrea valves, springs, retainers: $700+-
gsr cams: $50
edlebrock intake manifold: $300
peakboost turbo kit: $2800 shipped
injectors: $250
fuel rail and fpr: $250+-
fuel pump: $100
hondata: $500
tuning: $400

and with installation, should put you right near your budget and safely making 400+ whp. did i forget anything?

JWjDM

Are Peakboost Kit as Good quality as Full-Race??
I hear alot that Full-race Exhaust Manifolds are diffenetly
worth the money!

zexxbo

peakboost and afi are both very quality products. the only thing that full-race does different are the robotic tig welding and very slightly different design as far as i can tell. and actually, afi is using a new type of steel that is stronger and resists heat better i believe, not sure if peakboost or full-race have switched to it yet. i would spend $600 for peakboost or afi manifolds all day before i spent $1200 for a full-race manifold. you might see a +-5hp gain with the full-race. people are very particular about their parts tho, and most havent tried the competitors. ie: guys that buy full-race swear that full-race is the best, but havent tried the same set up with a peakboost or afi kit. lovefab and neukin are pretty good as well, but i think theyre relatively overpriced and the quality isnt as good as peakboost or afi. this is all opinion

93hatched_projekt

If i were you , in your shoes and I had 7k to work with , and knowing what I know today. There's no question in my mind , but stick with the b16. You have enough or close to having enough to boost and possibly go fully built. If you know you want to go turbo , throw out the idea of doing the whole h22 thing . Trust me it will all add up ( mounts,axles,swap,etc ). H22's arent reliable when boosted , unless built to take forged pistons. B16's can take more boost and you already have the motor. Keep it and throw like 10-12psi on the stock motor , it will be enough to out run most cars on the street...............just my thoughts

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93hatched_projekt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> H22's arent reliable when boosted </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just like those dam ls/vtec grenades, just waiting to exploded.

Why are h22's with boost not reliable ?

JWjDM

Question!
Why is the "Harmhorn" style Manifold
better then the "log" styled ones??
Also has anyone used any Manifolds from
CRP? if you have any experience with them please do share!

zexxbo

its ramhorn manifold because its styled after the horns of a ram (goat). and they have a design that flows better and builds boost quicker than a log manifold. and yes, crp makes pretty good manifolds as well, id go with them if they were a little bit cheaper, otherwise i just pay the difference for peakboost or afi.

93hatched_projekt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why are h22's with boost not reliable ? </TD></TR></TABLE>
The ringlands on the oem pistons are real weak under high temps , they will crumble and give. On the ramhorn vs log debate , I dont think ramhorns build boost faster , It's just they help on the top end.

zexxbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93hatched_projekt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ringlands on the oem pistons are real weak under high temps , they will crumble and give. On the ramhorn vs log debate , I dont think ramhorns build boost faster , It's just they help on the top end. </TD></TR></TABLE>

a couple of my friends noticed quicker spooling going to equal length as opposed to the inline pro styled manifold

JWjDM

I've heard and im not saying it true but someone once mentioned that the b series stock sleeves can "hold" up to 500hp
is this true? cause if that were the case then
aside from low compression pistons and Rods,
what else would i need as far as building the internals? also why the use of GSR cams! whats the differance between b16 and gsr cams?

Ramhorn is what i ment,I noticed that peakboost kits have that style mani.
but everytime i run a search on them i only get prostreets site that sales the kit and not seperately!

Im thinking about the PB kit but i only notice that they have a 2,799 and a 4,000 kit that is AC/PS compatiable,yet no Specs! Know im guessing that if it is AC/PS compatiable,then its the log style manifold,right?! but again what are the spec as far as the kits go,Turbo,BOV,Wastegate?

Ive been noticing alot that with any kit the Garrett turbo kits cost more then the T style turbos! are the GT turbo that much better or whats the differance??


**Nevermind about the Specs!
http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/hobtukit1.html
But is there anyway to upgrade to a GT Turbo??




Modified by JWjDM at 11:05 PM 1/6/2007

H22TAccord

Def just build what you have already... it will be cheaper in the long run and still will be a fast fun car. BUT if you REALLY want to go with the H22 SLEEVE IT!!! trust me, I learned the hard way after blowing all FOUR piston ringlands...

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93hatched_projekt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The ringlands on the oem pistons are real weak under high temps , they will crumble and give. On the ramhorn vs log debate , I dont think ramhorns build boost faster , It's just they help on the top end. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you telling me 10psi , on a reasonable size turbo with a good tuner is not reliable on an h22 ?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H22TAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Def just build what you have already... it will be cheaper in the long run and still will be a fast fun car. BUT if you REALLY want to go with the H22 SLEEVE IT!!! trust me, I learned the hard way after blowing all FOUR piston ringlands... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not buy new pistons if the ringlands are the problem, why would you sleeve it instead ?


Modified by 90blackcrx at 2:02 AM 1/7/2007


Modified by 90blackcrx at 2:12 AM 1/7/2007

zexxbo

stock sleeves on a b16 can hold somewhere around 500whp, it just depends on a bunch of things and how you take care of your motor and assuming everything is assembled and done correctly.
i made out a whole list of everything youd need:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zeimbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
eagle rods: $300
cp or arias pistons $400+-
ferrea valves, springs, retainers: $700+-
gsr cams: $50
edlebrock intake manifold: $300
peakboost turbo kit: $2800 shipped
injectors: $250
fuel rail and fpr: $250+-
fuel pump: $100
hondata: $500
tuning: $400

and with installation, should put you right near your budget and safely making 400+ whp. did i forget anything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1812482
peakboost kits right there. theyll support really nice hp numbers. and a/c & p/s compatible still uses the ramhorn styled manifold but it moves the wastegate and runners to accomodate your a/c and p/s. however youre probably gonna wanna remove p/s anyways cuz with that much torque, youre gonna be all over the road and might run your car into something.

the peakboost turbo kit comes with tial wastegate, tial bov, and t3/t04e turbo. just read the parts list. im sure you can, call up peakboost or just pm turbojesse on here and talk to him. the guy is cool as **** and they really take care of you.