2x0

Hey everybody. So that there is no confusion, this is not an ongoing project or a build that I am in the process of planning. I actually just purchased a 1991 CRX that was already built with this setup, because I am not looking for a project currently, just a fun car to drive. I am trying to learn all I can about the car and want to make sure it is safe and reliable to drive come summer time. I have done my own turbo build years ago on a del Sol, but that was on a stock engine, so this is a little different and more extreme than I am used to.

The previous owner did not provide an exhaustively detailed list of specs on the build, just what I have copied below. It appears the build took place over a couple of years and different stages. They did provide a previous dyno sheet from a tuning session where the car put down 401whp at 17psi on e85. Here is a vid https://youtu.be/2t-alhTaTjs The car is now tuned to 20psi, and they had claimed it made 475whp on this tune though I have not seen proof of this number. I am considering turning the boost back down for streetability and safety. He said he has driven around 5,000 miles on this setup.

Here is the setup as described by the previous owner and builder:

· GSR Block (not sleeved)
· Wiseco Pistons
· Eagle Rods
· Stage 5 RPM Ported B16 Head
· GSR Cams
· Cable LS Trans w/stock axles
· Comp Stage 5 Sprung Clutch
· Walbro 340LPH Pump
· FIC 1000cc Injectors
· 6AN Fuel Lines
· Hondata S300 Tuned on e85
· AEM Wideband and Gauges
· Precision GT3255E w/Upgraded Compressor
· Blox IM with 90mm TB
· MG Fab Stainless Turbo Manifold
· Tial Wastegate
· 3” Downpipe and Full 3” Exhaust w/2 Magnaflow Mufflers
· FMIC
· HKS BOV

Engine machine work and assembly was done by a professional shop, and tuning was done by Full Blown Motorsports.

Here are some pics he sent me to prove that it had the internal work done...





So, my question to the turbo experts on this forum, is there anything missing from this build? Any glaring red flags? Anything that doesn't add up?

I am half concerned about the safety and reliability of the setup, and half concerned if everything the seller told me is true or if I got ripped off. I did drive the car about an hour to get it back to my house, and it ran rough at times but I associated that with it being very cold out and burning 3 month old e85 that was sitting in the tank. Now of course being winter in MN, I won't get a chance to drive it much for a while, and the car is sitting outside in a snow bank.

Any help is appreciated. I am willing to do what is needed to this car to make it a somewhat reliable car that I can have some fun with on the nicer days this summer.

Thanks!

-Mat

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Nothing sticks out at the moment. The "FMIC" comment on the list may need to be elaborated, (what company, fin design, size, etc), but otherwise, no. The only way to truly know is to do a teardown of the engine and see if anything sticks out at you. I doubt that compression is an issue, but that's because it may have ONLY been tuned on E85, which has a great ability to resist knock, and allow for some small mistakes in tuning that would show their heads on 93 octane, but otherwise, seems fine.

2x0

Thanks for the input, it's good to hear that in theory this should be a good setup. I was a little concerned when he said the block wasn't sleeved, but like you said you never really know what it has without tearing the engine apart which is something I want to avoid.

It seems to run good, idles smooth. I do notice a burning oil smell when sitting and idling, but I think this may be from the turbo itself and the fact that the car runs at 75-80psi of oil pressure. The only other thing that concerned me was one of the times I tried getting on it a little in 2nd and 3rd gear, it misfired, and if I stepped on the gas at lower rpm's like around 2000, it would just sort of stumble. At most it's maybe a tuning issue, but also could this be due to cold outside temps and old e85? It seemed like maybe it was trying to dump too much fuel in and killed the spark or something. The car has never been driven in the winter before, so I am wondering if the tune is not adjusted well for cold outside temps.

Thanks,

Mat

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Whether its cold or not, at that rate, it won't matter. You don't want to try and accelerate in a high gear w/ lower boost anyway, as you'll dump a lot of fuel under load and will kinda "hiccup" anyway, unless it was tuned for it.
75-80psi of oil pressure is normal. If there is oil smoke at idle, that could be from whatever oil feed line and fitting are used. If they didn't use a restrictor fitting, and used something else instead, it could be smoke due to oil starvation. you have to get in with better pictures all around of the turbocharger to see what that could be.

2x0

Okay thanks! I know that my usual driving style is to stay in the lower RPM range for normal driving, but I figured I will need to adjust for this car and adapt to the tune a little bit.

It looked like there might have been a restrictor fitting right where the oil line feeds into the turbo. I'll need to take a closer look and will get some pics soon. There is no oil smoke from the exhaust that is noticeable, only the smell inside the car.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Oh. If it's from inside the car, that could be anything from the charcoal canister to the vents, to any catch cans hooked up.... Many different possibilities.

2x0

Looks to be a Full Race 20" x 11" x 3" FMIC possibly.

Also I made a mistake on the fuel pump, it is not 340lph. It is a Walbro 340 which flows 255lph. Fuel pressure has been turned up but I am not sure how or to what pressure. I will see what I can find out from the previous owner, this has me wondering if it could have to do with why my AFR's seemed so high when I brought it home. Stayed mostly in the 15's under normal driving with light throttle.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Which means its either a Garrett core or PWR core (most likely the latter if it's a newer looking core). Either way, you're all good in the intercooler department.

It could also mean that the previous owner put a milder tune to the car in anticipation of sale. I've done that before. I'd literally put it at a lower boost pressure level so that the new owner didn't just get into the car at any time, beat the **** out of it, then try to contact me saying "your car you sold me was a lemon. I want my money back."

I'd honestly do two things before I'd start worrying about the AFR Reading and all that stuff.
1) Check the car over mechanically as much as possible. (Ignition timing, read the plugs [since no one uses EGT gauges here anymore], and check oil for debris or metal babbit)
2) Find out what engine management you have on there, and go to a tuner to verify the map. Don't just go by AFRs that are being shown. Hell, the damn sensor may be off, you don't know.

This is the issue with buying someone else's project. You don't know how thorough or incomplete the setup is. You don't know if there are gremlins hiding in the software, and the map was made hastily just to keep it good enough to sell. (Remember, these cars are sold AS IS, with no warranty or recall). You may get a gem, you might not. Just because they put in some quality parts of the turbo kit, doesn't mean they may have run out of funding to get the tune and other components correct.

Check, before you keep driving like that and break something.

2x0

I appreciate the input. This is all very good advice, and I do plan to check everything mechanical that I can, as well as having a shop look everything over.

As far as the tune, it does have Hondata S300 and was tuned by a reputable tuner on a dyno. The previous owner also took me for a ride before I bought it and ran it to redline a couple of times, so if there was a faulty tune or a "bandaid" tune to make it good enough to sell, I doubt he would have done this and taken the risk before I purchased it. However I'm sure you are right and it wouldn't hurt to have it checked out by a tuner. I myself was nervous to drive it hard at all until I can put some fresh e85 in it and verify the ethanol content in the tank.

Wondering if there is a way I can plug into Hondata and download the maps to send to someone knowledgeable and have them looked over.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I'm sure you can download those and have them looked over by a second pair of eyes. I had no idea how you picked this up, so I made a valid presumption (it's ok, we don't always want a long book as to how you got the car, but it is important to state that it was professionally tuned and test-driven before purchase. You'd be surprised how many people don't do that.)

I can't tell you how to take the maps off and send (I haven't used Hondata on any of my builds since 2004) so, I'm sure someone can chime in as to how to do it, or you can query the Engine Management forum to see if someone will give step-by-step instruction.

2x0

Got the car out last night and drove it around a bit. Had some time to check fluids, and checked the tires finding only 12psi in them. This could explain why it seemed to feel a bit sluggish and weird the first time I drove it. So with that remedied, I took it out and despite single digit temps, it seemed to run fine. I kept the RPM's above 2500 at all times and it was much smoother. Also getting used to the clutch a bit so that helps. AFR's seemed normal.

Today I am taking it into a shop where we can get it up in the air and look over everything thoroughly. Also looks like some forum members have offered to look over my tune for me, once I can get my maps downloaded and sent to them.

Thanks so much for your help and advice on this. I am feeling 100x better about the car now knowing that there will not be anything left to chance.

Mat

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

2x0

So I am thinking it either needs a re-tune, or I need to run a different tune in winter vs. summer. Is that a thing? Previous owner claims he never drove it when temp was less than 50 or so outside, and he's never had any problems.

Car was sitting outside all day at 15-20 degrees, and would not start. It would idle for a minute, AF meter would start to go rich then it would die. To keep it running I had to hold it at 2-3000rpm constantly. Once the engine got up to 150 it idled okay. But still when I got on the throttle in 2nd or 3rd it would miss, stumble and fall on it's face.

Is this normal for e85 and cold temps?? Or is it possible the tune just needs updated for colder ambient temps??

2kdrift

sounds like a slight tunning issue to me, if your temp compensations are not spot on it will drive differenty in different temperatures and colder air is more dense. I would say with a really good tune this effect is cut down to a minimum and you shouldnt need to retune for each season

2x0

Ok thanks, that is what I am thinking also. I've started looking into the temperature compensation tables and comparing to others setup with e85.

I am hoping that by making some incremental changes I can get it to be more driveable in the winter.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's fine, but save your "winter adjustments" file as a different map file, and don't let it replace the original one, or you'll be in the same boat again, when the weather changes to a more drivable climate.