^^^^

Also, would like to know how good the AEM base boost maps will be and how they compare to hondata.

 

Sometiems the answer are right under your nose.

Plug & Play Technology - No additional wiring necessary
Installs in minutes!

Runs on Windows™ Based Software

16/32 Hybrid High-Speed Processor

Base Maps included

Onboard datalogging

Sequential Fuel Injection

Interactive, User-friendly Manual

Nitrous, Boost and Knock control

Forced induction compatible

Made in the USA
http://www.aempower.com

As far as base maps are concerned. The tuneabel pointes are user definable, but it has to fit on a 24x17 grid.


[Modified by ekb18c, 8:57 PM 12/23/2001]

 

I dont know if you have all checked it out, but the tour of the system is pretty good http://www.aempower.com/instructions/tour.htm

It looks like it will have the calibration information for a large number of makes and models.

 

By base boost maps I think he means the delivered maps for the cars.

How close a delivered map is is overated anyway. All you need is something to get you to the dyno.

 

Yes....however due to my location getting to a shop with a dyno that actually knows something about tuning imports will most likely be quite a long drive. Damn Wisconsin......

 

Long drives are fine. It only takes very basic tuning to get the car running safely at part throttle low load. Serious tuning is really only needed for WOT runs. I can tune a standalone now using just a standard O2 sensor from nothing so that it will get me where I'm going, but don't floor it.

A base map that's made for the car by Hondata or AEM or whoever should be better than that and may have no problems doing WOT runs, but don't chance it until you get on the dyno with a wideband and make sure you check for any warning indicators while you're driving.

 

You say that AEM comes with 1/2 a GIG of RAM and then say 512k which is half a Megabyte of RAM. Which do you mean? I am guessing that you meant Mb rather than Gb.

Hondata will support up to 29 psi, with the 3bar map sensor, and that is on a P28 ECU that you can take to any 4 cylinder Honda. You would need to reprogram it of course. AEM units, it appears, are designed for a particular application, i.e. - Civic, Prelude, Accord, etc., and it looks like you would need to buy another unit should you decide to sell your Civic and buy an Integra and want to take your ECU with you.

Hondata also offers the option to buy their product in different stages that are considerably cheaper than the AEM unit (provided you already have an OBDI ECU)and they also offer some options that I think are cool:
a shift light
full throttle launch and shift settings
ability to change the rev limits

I still have not made up my mind on which standalone I will buy but I like what I see as far as what AEM offers too. Just my 2 cents.

 

a lil bit of map sensor info..

OEM Honda map sensor read up to 2 bar or 14.5psi but are only reliable up to 11psi. This is the reason why Hondata ECU's can use the stock map sensor for boost. 1 bar map sensors can not read boost at all since they crap out at 0 psi. 3 bar map sensors like the GM Turbo TA sensor are good for 30psi(sometimes more).

 

I am debating also over trying out the AEM or going with the Hondata. The Hondata is a great system and all, but I don't like all the problems along with it. If you go to the user board on TOO's website everyone's post seems like they are all about problems (of course no one asks questions if things are just peachy, I understand this). I don't want to **** with bad chips etc. I would think the 4b is the most comparable, but you will also need the pocket programmer to burn new chips from your laptop to the Hondata. I think when comparing apples to apples and cost to cost the pocket programmer should be taken into consideration at around $250 I think.

I do like the full throttle shift which I doubt the AEM has and Hondata should patent if that is a unique feature to them. I don't think the Hondata has that great of a knock control system since its based off of stock, so I wonder if AEM's would be better.

Did someone say in the first post about the AEM coming with a "Lambada" meter. That's some funny ****, but does it come with a Lambda meter?

I have always wanted a standalone to have an EBC and I've been asking about that for a year or so now. If you can control injectors and read manifold pressure, it should be able to read boost and control an electronic solenoid gawddammit!!!

 

What i meant to say was half a gig which is 512 mb of ram. With the aem ecus, if you change your cars and would liek to stay PnP then you would have to change the ecus. Because as you may all know.. OBD1 plugs are different then OBD2 plugs. So if you change your car but stay OBD1 then the ecu's would fit. It all depends on the year of the car. With the AEM unit you can change the rev limiter, Becuase its all user definable. With Hondata everytime you rechip thats 370 dollars right there plus the cost of the tunning and dyno.


[Modified by ekb18c, 4:01 PM 12/24/2001]

 

Nice info. So how much would the PnP unit cost for a Hybrid Accord with a 98 Lude engine running a ODBI JDM ECU?

Also a view more questions?

1. Can a user change Vtec points on High & Low cams?
2. Can you disable stock speed and rev limiters?

 

My Civic would require AEM part number 30-1020. I would remove my Greddy piggy back FCU and Honda ECU and replace it with the AEM part. I don't plan on keeping the Civic forever and would eventually like to get an Integra or maybe a Prelude. I cannot take the AEM ECU with me to either of these cars and would need to either sell the AEM unit with the car or put the Greddy FCU and Honda ECU back on and sell the AEM ECU on Ebay or the like. This may not be such a bad thing and I might even recover a lot of the cost on my $1400 ECU. Then again, maybe I wouldn't get that much, who knows. Since the product is brand new, there aren't any used ones to approximate what they would sell for,

I am considering all of these scenarios because I have an idea on what I will be doing later which is to eventually sell my Civic in a year or so. If I bought the Hondata product, I would be using a Honda P28 ECU and a harness adapter. In a year or so, I sell my Civic and put the Greddy FCU and original OBDII ECU back on.

I then take my Hondata P28 ECU which will control any 4 cylinder Acura or Honda - teg, lude, accord, etc. - and I would need to get the ECU adapter harness ($250) to make it fit on whatever car I bought. I could even sell my old harness from my Civic to recoup most of the money that I laid down on the new harness.

The Hondata dealers that I have spoken to charge $30 for the chip plus the time for tuning to burn the chip. It is the tuning that gets you your fuel and timing maps you use to then burn the chip. I don't know of a $370 fee plus tuning that you are referring to.

I think I will wait another couple of months to see how the AEM ECU releases, what problems are had, the reviews that it gets, and decide then.

 

Just FYI... modacar.com is selling the PnP version for $1599, the race one for $1999.
http://www.modacar.com/honda/framese...uter_honda.htm

 

Becuase its all user definable. With Hondata everytime you rechip thats 370 dollars right there plus the cost of the tunning and dyno.
-----------------------------------------------------------

A stage 2 user has in car control of the VTEC Rpms, overall RPMs and shift light point. In addition a stage 3 user has control over launch and full throttle shift RPMs. Meaning these limits can be changed in a few seconds with the car running - and without a laptop.

Watch the video on setting the launch RPM at http://www.hondata.com/media.html

If a user has the optional flash eprom for their computer, then the only cost for retuning is time. If not, the PROMS only cost $5.00. Several dealers have told us the Hondata system is much faster to tune than ther standalones (because of the Honda maps supplied and the ease of use) - so we suggest you consult dealers who have used both systems and factor tuning time as one of your buying critera.

Doug

 

im doing it for $1,400 for the PnP system and $1,800 for the race version

 

Everyone should keep thier eyes opened as a few magazines have done some testing on the AEM ECU. Check out what they have to say about the AEM EMS. I'm sure it will be all good stuff. They shoould be out in a few..

 

Hmmm You can buy the same harness so it can fit on any honda car. (Eg. New car bd2 integra, but you have the obd1 civic aem ecu, YOU buy a skunk2 obd2 to obd1 converison harenss ($250) and it will plug right up)




[Modified by ekb18c, 2:55 PM 12/26/2001]

 

Aem's products have never been awe inspiring. They are simple, non-innovative and run of the mill. They do however have the market presence, and a HUGE advertising campaign, as well as the fact that almost every go-fast shop in the country carries their products.

Devleoping a pressure regulator vs. developing an engine management system are two very different things. If this system is either GEMS or ProEFI based and AEM did none of the development i would have higher hopes for it.

Right now, many of the HONDATA issues have been solved. Colin, you really need to get a lot of facts straight before posting, i dont think you realize it, but it takes away some of your credibility when your facts are incorrect. I had this happen alot with one of the guys at Z10 who would post and post and post, while not haveing a clue of what he is talking about.

A hondata is a great system. You simply cannot argue with that. 370 to tune?? Where did that figure come from, and why would AEM not need dyno time? Tuning is the same in both cases, the only differnece is that one requires 5$ chips. However a hondata is far less expensive in comparison to the AEM. So IMO you should consider carrying both. Not everyone needs to spend over a Grand on an engine management system when a $495 (retial) hondata 1b works perfectly.

Hey does ECP have an in house dyno or who do you guys go to?

 

Geoff,

I didnt not say 370 to tune. I said 370 to rechip!!!! Are you saying I wouldnt have to rechip my stock ecu to run hondata? Because I was just told from a hondata seller that I would have to rechip my stock ecu to run hondata.


Like said before In my post, I do not know much about Hondata, if i said wrong things about hondata please excuse my ignornace. I'm NOT putting Hondata down, most of the info I said was from other hondata users. This was a info post about the AEM, and I dont know how this became a war b/t AEM and Hondata. However AEM and Hondata AREN'T the only Engine managment systems around, there are numberous of other systems such as Haltech, DFI, and speedpro etc.
I'm just giving people another option instead of dfi, haltech. $370 about that number, I only heard from other hondata users that it cost that much to rechip the thing. I aint talking about dyno time here, thats a different issue.
Geoff you are comparing APPLES to ORANGES when you say hondata cost $495 and other EMS cost over $1,000.


AEM producst are one of the best products around. Are you attacking AEM's products? Thier cold air intakes are innovative, and NOT a run of the mill deal.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight before YOU post.


[Modified by ekb18c, 4:20 PM 12/26/2001]


[Modified by ekb18c, 5:22 PM 12/26/2001]


[Modified by ekb18c, 5:26 PM 12/26/2001]

 

You said it yourself about not knowing about Hondata and then make a comment about it costing $370 plus tuning time to change the fuel and timing maps. Geoff is right that if you make comments promote a product and point out disadvantages about another competing product that are incorrect that people will question your motives.

Doug, the owner of Hondata, points out that chipping their product would cost $5 and tuning time in the post above too. It is quite possible that Hondata has a more expensive upgrade, say from Stage2 to Stage3, that would cost $370, but again, the statement you made would still be misleading because you do not define what you are saying.

You were saying something in reference to my post earlier about having to buy a harness to adapt whatever car you are porting your P28 Honda/Hondata ECU to. I don't understand what you are saying. It is my understanding that the P28 OBDI ECU will power any 4 cylinder Honda or Acura. The only modification, wiring wise, is to get the harness that adapts your OBDII harness to it, if you should have an OBDII car. The advantage to being able to do that is for the reasons I pointed out earlier. Doug, do you see anyything that is factually wrong with what I am saying?

Again, I don't see anyone slamming the AEM product, just making statements about their reservations to not jump right in and buy something that is not proven yet. You do seem to have a good price in comparison to what modacar was offering.

 

No no, you almost got it right. You don't have to rechip your ECU to run Hondata. You must have your ECU modified, but having it socketed and a few resistors installed. I charge 50 bucks to have that done, takes about 2 days tops. When you dyno tune, you can use the emulator to tune, then burn one chip (2 seconds to do), install it (another 2 seconds), and you're done. If you don't have the emulator, no biggie. All you need is a rewritable chip ($20) and all you have to do is take the chip out, write to it, and reinstall it. It sounds difficult, but it's not. I was apprehensive about doing it, but it's easier than it sounds and looks. Do it once, and you feel like a pro FYI, I charged my last customer 300 for dyno tuning his setup. I could have easily done it faster and for less money had it not been a supercharged car (heat soak). Honestly, shouldn't take much more than 15 runs to do most street cars.

If you don't know much about the product, you might wanna check it out at http://www.hondata.com I think once you read up on it, you'll agree that this is a very good choice for most enthusiasts. Don't get me wrong, the AEM/ProEFI setup looks promising, but it matches up against the Hondata in all areas except for price, something most street cars are concerned with.

 

Ok here is what I siad, I said it would cost $370 to rechip the stock ECU, to run Hondata. Plus Tuning time! Now ARE YOU saying Im INCORRECT in this matter? Well I have called a Hondata dealer and asked them myself, and that is what they said. If I'm wrong, then I was given wrong info by a Hondata dealer, and if thats the case then excuse me . Please READ what I said before flaming me. Have i cleared it up now? So are you clear on what the $370 is for? Again, its for rechipping the STOCK ECU, so you can run hondata on it, AS PER A HONDATA DEAELR.


Can a p28 ecu run any 4 cyl honda/acura? I dont know about that. What I'm saying is that if you buy a AEM ems for your obd1 civic and later you decide to get a obd2 gsr, you can purchase a same wiring harness that converts obd2 into obd1(from either skunk2 or place racing etc), to make use of the AEM EMS. If this unclear, feel free to ask questions.

Im not slamming Hondata! If it comes across that I'm slamming Hondata, then please excuse me, because this Thread wasnt meant to slam hondata. This Thread is to give some info on AEM EMS. I do not mean any disrespect to Hondata, or any hondata users.

 

All in all like everyone has said its like comparing apples to oranges. If you do your research then you should be able to gage which application would suit your setup the best overall. Especially after comparing features and prices against standalones.

So there is really no arguement to be had, just clearing up information that wasnt clear. I do think that Hondata is the best solution so far that has a wide range of capabilities and is very much up to the task, without shelling out loads of money...

Again this is just my opionion and I am sure everyone has their own.

 

whoaaaaaaaaaa. ok deeep breath. Lets all chill out. I see you are really into AEM products. Thats great. These posts just get too heated sometimes.

In my humble opinion AEM doesnt make anything innovative. Cold air intakes have been around since the dawn of cold air. If you feel they are innovative then you are entitled to your own opinion and i do not care to detract from your opinion, put you down nor will I attempt to try to change it. Its a wonderful thing that their are different opinions, that makes up a marketplace and allows everyone to see different sides of things.

I realize this is not a Hondata post and it is an AEM post, but issues were brought up that were incorrect and that is why people have come to comment... that is how BBS's work, and why they work well. when other people comment on other products, its ok, dont be mad that this is an "AEM post, not a hondata post" It allows users to see all sides of the issue. I just honestly dont see how you can jump wholeheartedly into something and offer support on something that even you have no experience with. Supporting customers is not an easy thing to do, and if the AEM learning curve is steep you migth not be able to help them fully until you have a firm grasp on the system yourself.

I have dealt with ECP before and you guys really are a great shop. Probably the best in NJ. But you need to wait before you push the hell out of the product, and netiquette is not one of some people's strong points. parts whoring makes no friends.

<all of this is in my opinion>

 

wow hold up! I am not getting mad at what people have to say about other products. Thats what we are here to do, share info on different items. I love to hear other peoples perspectives on other items. That way I can give some feedback, back to the makers. I'm not here to start a war on Products, like i siad before. I do not mean harm or disrespect to hondata or any other manufactor. I love to hear other people opinions. I am not heated over this disccusion becuase this is after a discussion, and in discussion there will be differnt outlooks on the same thing.
Your right Geoff some people need to work on their netiquette.(is that even a word?? LOL)

Whoreing parts does not make any freinds, I'm just passing out a good deal i got. If i get a good deal on somethings, I wil pass it along to the customers. Thats usually how business works.


[Modified by ekb18c, 8:57 PM 12/26/2001]