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Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

 
Old 05-13-2019, 09:14 AM
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Default Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Ok so I have been working on building a d series turbo as I don't see many of them. However, last week a guy I know was offering me a B20A for $100 complete. He stated it came out of a prelude, now as much as I've searched on the b20a I don't see much that can be done with them. I might be wrong but I can't find much on the "search" button. Now what would y'all do, stick with building the d series or give it a go on the b20a and if going with the b20a what be some good internals. Either way I'm building the motor from scratch whichever I decide to make sure it gets done right. I am going with a turbo build, so what's y'all's thought.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:48 AM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

We call the b20a/b21a the bastard B-series for a reason (b20a comes in the 88-89 Si's, b21a is in the 90-91 Si's, which I have, and the b20a3 is the carb'd S model found in all years I think). They share no parts with your traditional civic/integra b-series engines/chassis, you'd need custom just about everything for a mere ~135hp. No the direction you want to go at all, you'll definitely want to pass on that one.

Your guy has an engine only a 3rd gen luder would want.

The b20b engine is the "more common" 2.0L swap done in civics, search around for b20vtec/crvtec for more info on that config, or search around further for your traditional B/H/K series swaps.

Last edited by 90preludeLad; 05-13-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:10 AM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Preciate the response, that explains why there's very little aftermarket parts for that motor. Don't want to spend so much money on having to modify just for a mere 135hp.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:18 AM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

No problem man, and very little aftermarket is an understatement unfortunately...
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:47 AM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

wrong b20....WRONG B20
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:10 PM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Keep your $100. That B20A is straight up GARBAGE
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:56 PM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by hondanewbie87 View Post
Ok so I have been working on building a d series turbo as I don't see many of them. However, last week a guy I know was offering me a B20A for $100 complete. He stated it came out of a prelude, now as much as I've searched on the b20a I don't see much that can be done with them. I might be wrong but I can't find much on the "search" button. Now what would y'all do, stick with building the d series or give it a go on the b20a and if going with the b20a what be some good internals. Either way I'm building the motor from scratch whichever I decide to make sure it gets done right. I am going with a turbo build, so what's y'all's thought.
Everyone has said it already but avoid that particular B.
Stick with the D build.. Whatcha got so far?
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:24 PM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Yeah it has been a unanimous decision, keeping my $100 haha. So far I got a d15b7 block with a ported d16y8 head, the manifold is from the d15 but upgrading to the skunk manifold. The car I bought came with an auto so the next purchase is the manual trans with linkage. It's going slow but it's getting there, need to buy some internals for the bottom end. Looking around for some rods and pistons next.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:13 PM
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Default re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by hondanewbie87 View Post
Yeah it has been a unanimous decision, keeping my $100 haha. So far I got a d15b7 block with a ported d16y8 head, the manifold is from the d15 but upgrading to the skunk manifold. The car I bought came with an auto so the next purchase is the manual trans with linkage. It's going slow but it's getting there, need to buy some internals for the bottom end. Looking around for some rods and pistons next.
Rods and pistons for the B7 bottom end is gonna be a hard find. I looked for a bit. B8 rods will work but there's a slight length difference so you'll need to find the appropriate pistons.. Compression height will be about .5mm shorter, if I remember correctly.
When I kept hitting brick walls with the B7, that's when I swapped to a D16Z6.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

I was in your same situation on turboing a D or going another route. Since for me z6ís were just as much or more than a b18/20 i ended up just saving up and bought an integra for less than a whole motor/trans swap and now am building the motor. Parts availability and tried and true build comboís just makes life alot easier.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by dlx111 View Post
I was in your same situation on turboing a D or going another route. Since for me z6ís were just as much or more than a b18/20 i ended up just saving up and bought an integra for less than a whole motor/trans swap and now am building the motor. Parts availability and tried and true build comboís just makes life alot easier.
just remember, with a B18 engine, you pay the premium just because...when it comes to replacement parts. Do they make more power, of course in most cases. But why bother when you can make almost the same with a good D series setup.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
just remember, with a B18 engine, you pay the premium just because...when it comes to replacement parts. Do they make more power, of course in most cases. But why bother when you can make almost the same with a good D series setup.
Honestly, it's all getting scarce now. Also, why settle for "almost the same" part, when it can be done properly in the B series to make more anyway?
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Honestly, it's all getting scarce now. Also, why settle for "almost the same" part, when it can be done properly in the B series to make more anyway?
Because it's a series/chassis swap; Takes the costs that much higher. The issue with OP's proposed plan is the B7 block. There are rods available, the pistons may have to be custom.. BUT, hindsight is 20/20 and had I known then what I know now- custom slugs are really marginally higher in cost than a shelf set, I'd probably have just ordered a custom set for my B7 instead of swapping to the Z6.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Because it's a series/chassis swap; Takes the costs that much higher. The issue with OP's proposed plan is the B7 block. There are rods available, the pistons may have to be custom.. BUT, hindsight is 20/20 and had I known then what I know now- custom slugs are really marginally higher in cost than a shelf set, I'd probably have just ordered a custom set for my B7 instead of swapping to the Z6.
I'd have just swapped the engine to a B-series entirely and been done with it. But then again, all of my chassis already had the engine I wanted in them (for a bit, anyway)
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Honestly, it's all getting scarce now. Also, why settle for "almost the same" part, when it can be done properly in the B series to make more anyway?
it depends where you live. Here in Charlotte, you can find D16y8 engines easily...either through private sellers or self-service salvage yards. As for B-series parts, it's readily available online of course.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
it depends where you live. Here in Charlotte, you can find D16y8 engines easily...either through private sellers or self-service salvage yards. As for B-series parts, it's readily available online of course.
Genuine b- series parts regarding the internal assembly are getting scarce. for those of us with persnickety needs. Your area my have plenty of d-series, but I bet ya most aren't complete, or are missing something essential.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
just remember, with a B18 engine, you pay the premium just because...when it comes to replacement parts. Do they make more power, of course in most cases. But why bother when you can make almost the same with a good D series setup.

Almost the same power ?!? How many 1500 whp "D" series engines are out there ??? How about 1300 whp ones ??? 1200 whp ones ??? 1000 whp ones even ???

So, if you are talking about 300-500 whp "D" series engines... ok, I am with you. If you like the lighter weight... or you want to be "different"... I still think the "D" is a good idea. Reliability is NOT on par with a "B"... even after you have modified the oiling system. The only savings that you will have building one is that you already own it in a Civic...

Pistons cost the same... "D" rods can cost more in some cases. The "B" series is like the Chevy 350 of the Honda world... so parts are created by lots of manufacturers and that means that competition is good for the consumer. Yes, you have to buy two camshafts instead of one... dual valve springs instead of singles... advantage "D". Better crankshaft (you can use the stock one as is, for the "D" you need to spend $$$ fixing the oil passages or buying an A6 crank), better cylinder head oiling, better oil pump, superior parts selection... advantage "B".
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by JRCivic1 View Post
Almost the same power ?!? How many 1500 whp "D" series engines are out there ??? How about 1300 whp ones ??? 1200 whp ones ??? 1000 whp ones even ???

So, if you are talking about 300-500 whp "D" series engines... ok, I am with you. If you like the lighter weight... or you want to be "different"... I still think the "D" is a good idea. Reliability is NOT on par with a "B"... even after you have modified the oiling system. The only savings that you will have building one is that you already own it in a Civic...

Pistons cost the same... "D" rods can cost more in some cases. The "B" series is like the Chevy 350 of the Honda world... so parts are created by lots of manufacturers and that means that competition is good for the consumer. Yes, you have to buy two camshafts instead of one... dual valve springs instead of singles... advantage "D". Better crankshaft (you can use the stock one as is, for the "D" you need to spend $$$ fixing the oil passages or buying an A6 crank), better cylinder head oiling, better oil pump, superior parts selection... advantage "B".
I didn't need to swap to an A6 crank. The Z6 crank has 2 holes per main journal. And nothing about them needs fixing. **shrug** You may be thinking of the Y7 or Y8 versions. Where the D is concerned, the Z6 is king. Oiling concerns are easily addressed with a simple port and shim of the pump but that's also not even a concern til 500+. The B series, in general, has the displacement advantage over the D. I'm still in amazement myself that the B16, having the same 1.6L displacement as the D16 would come out ahead but there's also the stroke/bore advantage on the B16 vs D16. The stroke ratio allows it to be revved higher allowing ultimately for higher power output. So lb for lb, the advantages in similar displacement go to the B here for higher rpm capability and that 2nd camshaft. We're all well aware that just 2 cams alone is advantageous in producing power. There's really no comparison in B vs D for power production, what you'd have to compare to even TRY and keep a level playing field is reliability.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

All great stuff here, my thing is I wanna do the D series because it's like stated, the b series is the sbc350 and it's over done. I'd rather get some that is not commonly done, aka the d series. Yeah I agree it has been a pain in the *** trying to find rods for the d15 but with some ingenuity it can definitely get done. Am I looking for crazy horsepower no, but when you think about it with a proper build with a d series you can make some decent power, and I'm planning on just having this car for fun. Just is pretty fascinating that you can pull so much power out of 4 cylinders with one cam. Do appreciate y'alls advice on the not getting that b20, which I didn't. So now the real work begins in finding all the internals.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

There is nothing wrong with being unique or different OP... I am the "Poster-child" of this thinking. My love for Supercharging isn't because it is better than Turbocharging... it is because Supercharging is unique and different.

Welcome to the club.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Advice for a turbo build: stay D-Series or?...well, yeah..

Originally Posted by hondanewbie87 View Post
All great stuff here, my thing is I wanna do the D series because it's like stated, the b series is the sbc350 and it's over done. I'd rather get some that is not commonly done, aka the d series. Yeah I agree it has been a pain in the *** trying to find rods for the d15 but with some ingenuity it can definitely get done. Am I looking for crazy horsepower no, but when you think about it with a proper build with a d series you can make some decent power, and I'm planning on just having this car for fun. Just is pretty fascinating that you can pull so much power out of 4 cylinders with one cam. Do appreciate y'alls advice on the not getting that b20, which I didn't. So now the real work begins in finding all the internals.
Whelp, I'll say this, at least you made a firm decision, and that's what matters. I do remember ole' Bisimoto used to be king of the D-series. May want to look him up, and check out his products for your build. Couldn't hurt.
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