<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan_the_MaN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just talked to a perfomance shop. They told me I don't need to change by ecu. I just need a boost controller and fuel management unit and then tune it. Sound right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends on what they mean by fuel managment unit. Ideally with turbo you use larger than stock injectors, fuel pump and then fuel managment. Ideally its something like a chipped ecu (crome/uberdata).... but you can use the Safc hack... and wait for your motor to grenade.... or use the greddy emanage and not get nearly as nice a tune as you would with Crome.

Sounds like they are mainly just trying to sell you key parts.

 

Here is the setup:
1997 Civic LX 5-spd (tranny swapped with 96 Civic)
Stock motor with 10x,xxx miles
IHI Turbo (this is a moderately small turbo - 1.5" outlet)
Spearco Intercooler
Custom IC aluminum piping (2")
DSM BOV (not sure what year)
New Silicone hoses w/ t-bolts everywhere (550F degree rated)
Greddy Turbo Timer
APEX-i AVCR
New Injectors (don't know what kind - mechanic recommended them)
Custom turbo manifold
Stock Intake Manifold - No aftermarket like I see everyone having

So...I need the chipped P28, ecu harness and download crome to my laptop and then take it to a tuner. Yes?

Whats the difference between the P28 and the P06 ECU?
And, I just called a Dyno store and they said $700 to tune with crome. Sound about right?


Modified by Dan_the_MaN at 1:22 PM 10/25/2005

 

you have different injectors installed? what kind are they? you stock ecu is mapped for 240cc injectors so putting in different ones would mess up the amount of fuel you are getting(unless they are stock size). does the car idle rough?

as far as engine management it would probably be easier for you to just get a chipped p28 and a harness and let the tuner worry about the hardware and software needed for tuning.

do some research before buying anything. crome is only one option. there is also uberdata, neptune or even hondata if you are willing to spend the money. there are a lot of good write-ups about chipping ecus and tuning. check out http://www.pgmfi.org

P06 is a non-vtec ecu P28 is vtec. $700 sound a little steep for a dyno tune but i guess it depends on where you go.

 

Do I need the P28 if I tune with crome? I have a civic lx sohc non-vtec, so will the p06 work just as well? I think the dyno guy quoted my $700 because they will be reprogramming the ecu from scratch and it takes a while.

 

Contact someone like http://www.j-k-tuning.com/ and he can chip whatever obd1 ecu you have and give you a basemap for far less than $700. then you'll have to locate someone that can hook up a wideband for you.

 

yes i wasnt sure where this guy was from but j-k-tuning is a great option for chipping and tuning. also people like kenji and phearable.net could all get you a chipped obd1 ecu. and a good street tune would at least get you started for now and then you can get some money for some dyno time later.

 

How come no one has mentioned hondata s300? In my opinion its better than the others. No,i haven't actually used the crome and ubedata; however, I have downloaded the software and everything - and I really didn't like the options and everything that they had available.......

I don't like the idea of getting chips and everything put in the ecus because if he wanted to up the boost or something he would have to get a new chip or something. That would just be a pain in the ***. i wouldn't want to go through all of that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKingPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How come no one has mentioned hondata s300? In my opinion its better than the others. No,i haven't actually used the crome and ubedata; however, I have downloaded the software and everything - and I really didn't like the options and everything that they had available.......

I don't like the idea of getting chips and everything put in the ecus because if he wanted to up the boost or something he would have to get a new chip or something. That would just be a pain in the ***. i wouldn't want to go through all of that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If he wanted... he could do the chipped ecu route (both s300 and crome require this).. then just use the Ostrich and strap that down and run fully emulated. So he can switch on the fly... just like the s300.

Oh and the Ostrich is 175...

 

yeah i think most of us have been suggesting the cheaper/free rom editors because it sounds like this guy is on a budget.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKingPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't like the idea of getting chips and everything put in the ecus because if he wanted to up the boost or something he would have to get a new chip or something. That would just be a pain in the ***. i wouldn't want to go through all of that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

not extremely familiar with the new s300 but wouldnt you have to retune any ems if you want to up the boost. most tuners i know using uberdata or crome use an emulator for realtime tuning and then just burn a chip at the end. so thats pretty much the same as having the s300 but we just have to burn the bin file onto the chip after we are done. takes like 30 seconds, no big deal.

not knocking hondata or anything the others are just cheaper

 

well if money is a factor, i heard Crome is the best tuning system for one of the low price cheap ones.....

 

Thanks guys for all the input. I think I am going to try to find a obd1 ecu, get it chipped by someone and have them add a base map (same thing as street tune?). With this I could at least run my car fairly safely until I get some more $$$ to fully tune and dyno, correct? Btw, I would like to stay on stock boost (8psi) all the time. Don't need or want to change it...for now. Chipping is basically taking the P06 and making in a P28, right?

Now...anyone on here that can chip and add a street tune if I send them a obd1 ecu?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Contact someone like http://www.j-k-tuning.com/ and he can chip whatever obd1 ecu you have and give you a basemap for far less than $700. then you'll have to locate someone that can hook up a wideband for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you will have to get a obd1 ecu, the 1997 civic u have is a obd2a ecu, otherwise ur stuck with aem or the select few of obd2 standalones

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan_the_MaN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks guys for all the input. I think I am going to try to find a obd1 ecu, get it chipped by someone and have them add a base map (same thing as street tune?). With this I could at least run my car fairly safely until I get some more $$$ to fully tune and dyno, correct? Btw, I would like to stay on stock boost (8psi) all the time. Don't need or want to change it...for now. Chipping is basically taking the P06 and making in a P28, right?

Now...anyone on here that can chip and add a street tune if I send them a obd1 ecu?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A Basemap is designed to start the car up... and get you to a tuner.... it is in no way a street tune or anything else. Even running similar maps from similar setups will not gaurantee your safety... get a basemap... and schedule a tune.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by splitime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A Basemap is designed to start the car up... and get you to a tuner.... it is in no way a street tune or anything else. Even running similar maps from similar setups will not gaurantee your safety... get a basemap... and schedule a tune.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly

im also still concerned with the injectors. to get a basemap he will need to know the flow rate. so he can tell the person what to scale the basemap for.

also you are still confused on chipping. read this http://home.mn.rr.com/keebler6....html

this article shows how an ecu is "chipped" this is a p28 but pretty much any obd1 ecu can be chipped like this.

the p06 to p28 conversion we were talking about is something different. that involves changing the p06 coding (non-vtec) to be like a p28 (vtec) so it can then be "chipped" and used on vtec motors

 

Well, I went with the Hondata s300.

I"m just going to have some boost tables created. At 8psi, 10psi, 12psi and 15psi

That way I won't have to keep changing things. I'll get it tuned for those four boost levels. So, when I up the boost the Hondata s300 already knows what to do. Won't have to change ****.

 

well i think if you just tune for 15psi you will be fine. since honda's ecu uses rpm vs MAP your tune will be good at 15psi and when you turn it down you will still be good because there will already be boost tables for lower psi because you already made them when you did the 15psi tune. i think all ems are like that. see what i mean?

 

Yeah - I can see that. That makes sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the p06 to p28 conversion we were talking about is something different. that involves changing the p06 coding (non-vtec) to be like a p28 (vtec) so it can then be "chipped" and used on vtec motors</TD></TR></TABLE>

FYI, its just a matter of adding a few more circuits (more chipping time really, and more components)... and you can use a p05 if you add 1 more piece to the p06 conversion to convert it to 4wire o2. Once done, the p05/06 work just the same as a chipped p28 (main difference is their onboard program isn't p28). All just require an experience solderer and the right parts/knowledge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by splitime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

FYI, its just a matter of adding a few more circuits (more chipping time really, and more components)... and you can use a p05 if you add 1 more piece to the p06 conversion to convert it to 4wire o2. Once done, the p05/06 work just the same as a chipped p28 (main difference is their onboard program isn't p28). All just require an experience solderer and the right parts/knowledge.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i understand that. i am using a p06-&gt;p28 myself.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan_the_MaN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Chipping is basically taking the P06 and making in a P28, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

he thought the "chipping" was making a p06 a p28. i didnt want him to be confused because the chipping process we are talking about is adding the sockets for an eprom chip.

 

Fair enough

 

i am still a newb though. i kinda konw how everything works but my i still get my tuner to do all the soldering action and tuning. you must do some ecu work and tuning yourself? you seem pretty knowledgeable.

 

I am a LX non-vtec, so I guess I won't need the P28. Fully tuning and dyno with uberdata or crome will cost at least $500, so at this point I am saving up. Right now I am running the car with the IC pipe disconnected from the turbo.

Does anyone know anyone in the Socal area (near SD or LA) that can chip and add a basic street tune?

 

1) What does everyone think of pherable.net chipped p06?
2) Decided to get new injectors. What size is good if I am going 10psi max, but usually only 7-8psi? What brand?



Modified by Dan_the_MaN at 5:33 PM 10/26/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan_the_MaN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Right now I am running the car with the IC pipe disconnected from the turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey guys. do you think its safe for him to do this. im thinking since he has an internal wastegate and its most likely reading boost off the compressor housing then he will be ok and the wastegate will still open correctly preventing overspooling the turbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan_the_MaN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) What does everyone think of pherable.net chipped p06?
2) Decided to get new injectors. What size is good if I am going 10psi max, but usually only 7-8psi? What brand?</TD></TR></TABLE>

1. phearable is good and he can take care off getting a basemap on there and all that. you can also look into j-k-tuning (93turbo16)
2. you would probably be fine with 450cc or maybe go with 550cc if you plan on more power down the road.