<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, its lean, and Octane has nothing to do with it.

cylinder temps are sky high and unsafe w/ high boost and lean conditions such as 13:1

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explain mase, here or PM

 

not a lot to explain. he already summed it up. that is lean.

 

You hear lots and lots about how 12.5:1 AFR is ideal for reliability and power, so what is the catch here? You should go richer at those power levels with stock bottom end, or... ? Enlighten us, stunna.

 

I would not personally tune 12.5:1 myself on a street car but this is a racecar, I thought 12.5:1 was pretty acceptable for a race motor.

 

tune a car to 12.5:1 and then tune it to 11.5:1.. See how much power you loose and then decide if its worth the risk. 12.5:1 gives u no room for error.

 

This car is a street car. It is full interior, driven to and from the track, never trailered, and it is registered and insured. The car has a safe tune on it and it is NOT running lean.

I'm not going to argue about what Mase thinks is too lean for C16. What I have learned about tuning comes from professionals with many many more years of experience than the #1 stunna. Hopefully the people who read this board know to take everything they read here with a grain of salt. The best way to learn is to take advice from valid sources and apply it to what you are doing, gain knowledge from your own experiences. Don't just listen to some kid who thinks he knows everything, because the truth is most kids don't know ****.

By the way Mase, what was the air/fuel on the last dyno chart you posted? Yea, by the look of the graph it looks like that thing needs some tuning.

 

You guys must really have a chip on your shoulder. Mase didn't assault you, all he did was state that that was a lean a/f ratio.. And before you make comments about his tuning, why don't u get ur facts strait and read the whole thread! You'll realize they ran out of dyno time and he finished the tuning on the street. as a matter a fact he left it at 11.5:1 a/f.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
we only rented the dyno for an hour, so our time was pressed, frankly im a little embarrassed by this dyno graph. for one, when i raised the boost, it went a little lean.... and the afr isnt my best, but after that dyno run i richened it up quite a bit, but that turned out to be our best power... so dont look at that afr curve the graph smoothing was minimal anyways
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The argument isn't really that 12.5:1 is a lean a/f or not, its just that it gives you no room for error. If you don't agree a 12.5:1 a/f ratio leaves no room for error then I give u

 

Lean by whos standard? If I have a car running C16 I'm going to go lean and throw as much timing at is as I can before I grenade or melt the ******.... period. You may not like that, but it isnt your car and when you're shooting for titles and points... every edge matters.

edit: I thiink some of you missed the fact of how much power this car made throughout the powerband .... its not some peak HP dyno queen.. this is usable power.


Modified by GimpyAccord at 8:08 PM 4/6/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by calmweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont see 13:1 afr anywhere....if you are talking before he hit boost, im pretty sure you can have a 13:1 boost transition....

as for his afr, it is a lil lean i guess. i never thought of 12.5:1 as lean but whatever. This afr line looks a **** of a lot better than the last one you posted Mase and this block is less built.</TD></TR></TABLE>

look at 5000 RPMS, i see 14:1

 

you don't think he is making boost a 5000 rpm? LOL ok.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I have a car running C16 I'm going to go lean and throw as much timing at is as I can before I grenade or melt the ******.... period.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats a great way to tune a car. and even better way to get referral business!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you don't think he is making boost a 5000 rpm? LOL ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it isn't making boost yet at 5k. its probably only making 1-2 psi there where its running 14:1 then you can see where it starts to boost as the air fuel drops.

 

To Willis,
Let me know how long the engine last after extended full throttlle and high speed (120+ MPH) combined.

BTW your AFR line looks totally made up... It's so straight...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coocoo32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let me know how long the engine last after extended full throttlle and high speed (120+ MPH) combined.

BTW your AFR line looks totally made up... It's so straight...</TD></TR></TABLE>

mine looks that straight too...i hope my tuner didnt' draw it in photoshop

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you don't think he is making boost a 5000 rpm? LOL ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He probably just stuck the pedal and it took a second or so for the wideband sensor to catch up... there is a little bit of lag involved in widebands since most users cannot afford the lab grade units.

I run 13.7:1 and about 32 degrees of ignition at transition to boost with my LS, it lasted over a year of beating on it as a daily driver *with* a blown headgasket. It's about like the AFC hack ignition timing being advanced 10 degrees at boost transition... that's enough timing that you can destroy an engine even if you have perfect AFR, but people don't due to the advanced timing event being over with quickly.

As with many things, there is a big gap between idealized theory and accepted practice and what people get away with on a daily basis.

 

joseph, i asumed he started his run much earlier, not at 5000 RPM.

also, your turbo HAS to be making boost at 5000 RPM. There is no way it isn't making any... unless you have an extreme exhaust leak.

also joseph, how can you advocate 13:1 as not being lean! It is proven time and time again that 11.5:1 / 12:1 is the safest way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't just listen to some kid who thinks he knows everything, because the truth is most kids don't know ****. </TD></TR></TABLE>

waa waa waa, im gonna take this post as I do with most people on this board, all a ****** joke.

Yeah thats right, im just a stunna who doesnt know ****, thats why people fly me everywhere, cuz i dont know **** and i have never made any power, and all i do is blow up cars (wait a minute how many of my cars have blown up again?). its sad that this thread gets skewed like this because another hater has to open their mouth. You dont have to listen to me, but my ideology is proven to be very effective and safe. but what do i know, im just a punk *** fraternity dude.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
By the way Mase, what was the air/fuel on the last dyno chart you posted? Yea, by the look of the graph it looks like that thing needs some tuning </TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, yeah it did need tuning after that dyno pull, but funny that my shitty tune made so much power considering the components?

Also, BTW, Why dont u reread my thread and see that i admited that run was lean as ****. Do u think its running lean right now? right now it doesnt ever go above 12:1. I admitted first hand that that afr curve sucks ***, have u seen my other dyno's? thats all i have to say to that, i admit my faults....

Above all, it truly shows your ignorance by not knowing that you gain minimal power and are at such a high risk of failure w/ a 13:1 afr.

why did you stop at 13:1, hell w/ your thinking, why didnt u just run it at 14:1???

but do yourself a favor, next time richen it up to 12:1 and see how much power u lose, then ask yourself if its worth it.

you can run whatever the hell you want, its not my motor, i dont care if it blows...

PS nice torque

 

Yes, 11.5:1 and below...

 

Dude Mase its not a 13:1 its a 12.6573:1 a/f. You RETARD!!! anyways, 116 octane gasoline requires a much different a/f ratio for boost then 93 octane gasoline because the extra octanes allow you to run leaner!!! gawd dude everyone knows this!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude Mase its not a 13:1 its a 12.6573:1 a/f. You RETARD!!! anyways, 116 octane gasoline requires a much different a/f ratio for boost then 93 octane gasoline because the extra octanes allow you to run leaner!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>


oh damn, i guess i dont know this because im not a professional, im only the NUMBER 1 Stunna. HA

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I have learned about tuning comes from professionals with many many more years of experience than the #1 stunna. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess Ben Strader is not considered a 'professional' in your eyes then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, your turbo HAS to be making boost at 5000 RPM. There is no way it isn't making any... unless you have an extreme exhaust leak.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't. If you've ever seen the fastest drag race cars, the turbine are bigger than the compressors. Drag setups meant to be fast are lag-city, and a SC61 on a higher than stock revving B16 is probably a good compromise between street car and a purpose built drag car. If Willis has 1-2 psi at 5000, with open downpipe, he's doing well.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also joseph, how can you advocate 13:1 as not being lean! It is proven time and time again that 11.5:1 / 12:1 is the safest way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

13:1 AFR is as rich as you need to be for NA power, which is where I place boost transition at in my mind.

 

dam you joseph go back to the aim convo you little rat

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

waa waa waa, im gonna take this post as I do with most people on this board, all a ****** joke.

Yeah thats right, im just a stunna who doesnt know ****, thats why people fly me everywhere, cuz i dont know **** and i have never made any power, and all i do is blow up cars (wait a minute how many of my cars have blown up again?). </TD></TR></TABLE>

People fly you all over because they are on your bandwagon...Im just hating though, i wish i could have 90% of the FI forum ready to blow me at any given time.

 

jumping on the mase bandwagon is the new hotness!