accordking

The big racers do this mod to handle the higher boost. Has anyone done on an every day car?

bigTom

u talking about arp's?

accordking

yeah, ARP. Harvy at Harvs Dyno said this is the way the to go.

ninesecrx

the only person I know thats done this is Christan Rado. are you trying to boost more then 40 pounds? If you have a good block/head surface and gasket with someone who knows how to tune and keep a head on, I dont think its worth it.....Mike

accordking

I'm not boosting that much, but it make sense though. It would be nice if someone came up with a block that can have studs running through block down to the main caps(like a motorcycle engine).

Arturbo

I think AEBS does this on the blocks they do that need to handle high pressure. But I would be scared to resize the thread to make a 1/2" stud work. Plus I'll never boost that much.

art

Sonny

Never say never!

Sonny

Full-Race Geoff

Rado isnt the only one, most everyone that is running ridiculous boost levels and super high power is doing it. While i agree that for the most part the head wont lift (after looking at rados car, i really wonder how good the "big dog" tuner is? blowin rods out the bottom, cracking girdles etc...) under a proper tune goin into really high levels of boost and huge cfm #s make it almost a good precaution, if not a necessity. It certainly cant hurt anything, and if it means that a head gasket will last one run longer, im all for it.

ninesecrx

I know a guy who actually bores the stock threads out and puts in new steel threads and he claims they are stronger in there then the stock headbolt threads. Im sure you can do it the same way with 1/2 ones. to me though, this seems like a heliocoil...if I spelled that correct.

Full-Race Geoff

Well helicoils are actually stronger than simply threads if installed correctly... pretty weird to think but its true. Some friends of mine build a satellite and nasa requires that every single bolt be helicoiled and safety wired. totally unrelated but kinda interesting.

accordking

My machinist wants me to build a motor for alcohol and boost levels are going to consist of high boost levels. He said going with the studs(1/2 inch) all the way through the block down to the mains would be the way to go. Basically, you eliminate the main cap bolts and uses the studs to keep the mains and head together.
Doing this set up would have to consist of cutting the block literally in half(length wise). Some crazy thinking but seems to be do-able and makes lots of sense. I just have a regular built motor running on gas. I just think it's going to cost a lot money. Let me know what all of you think. I really think the helicoil concept is more cost effective though.



[Modified by accordking, 3:40 PM 6/23/2002]

ninesecrx

Heres what I think, your machinist is dumb. You can not do that because the head studs on top(from front to back) are wider apart them the crank bolts. You can not just go through and make it with one long stud. Also, if you blow your head gasket and take the head off, the bolts and crank are going to try to drop out the bottom of the motor. Also when you build the bottom end and you want to check clearances, you would need to have a head on the block to so you could tighten everything together. Im sure I could find more reasons too. If you want, just do the 1/2 with inserts or drip and tap it your self.

Geoff, your heliocoil thing is not off topic about nasa. Im sure they know what works.

Full-Race Geoff

yep your machinist has probably never seen/touched a honda motor. not gonna work, but if you are intent on doing it billet caps and a billet head and while youre at it, a billet block might make a whole lot of sense for your application...

I think the helicoils are cool but i know there is a special way to install them (not just the standard put it in, break the tab off, run a screw through it) that makes it stronger. It sort of makes sense that the screw tension forces it to expand making it stronger but its still weird/hard to believe. Then again if NASA believes it, i *Definately* believe it.




[Modified by FFgeoff, 10:55 PM 6/23/2002]

ninesecrx

maybe I will just invest money in a NASA rocket engine.

Full-Race Geoff

yeah you could but then some rich guy is gonna power his with methanol due to "reliability and b/c its easier on the parts" and will beat you to pluto/jupiter

haha

earl

Stick the knife in and twist it

accordking

In defense to my machinist, Al Leist, I wouldn't say that he is "dumb". He sleeves majority of the blocks(Honda) in the Bay Area and is very reputable. What he had in mind was to CNC a center section, if not, the block to accomodate the proper locations of the mains and head bolts. All these things he brought up were just in "theory". Let alone that it is going to take a lot of money too. He built some American 4 cylinder this way and it races out in the Salt Flats somewhere(i'm not into that though) and it makes lots of power.

Although what you said is true, Al's reasoning for doing this is to keep the engine as one unit and preventing the engine from flexing like standard aluminum engines.

Full-Race Geoff

if youre that hardcore just go get a DART block. But plan on racing the outlaw class, or equivalent

Gmedalion

the DART block should be legal for the NHRA hot rod class by the time it is produced. Tom is trying to get it passed.

ninesecrx

How can you pass something that is not factory Honda?

Gmedalion

I dunno but last time I talked to Tom he said that he was 99% sure that it will pass for the HOT ROD class, he just had to make an official short block for the ruling commitee to look at a finsihed product.