Coil on Plug without dizzy
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 0
From: KillahKallih, Ca
Coil on Plug without dizzy
was wondering if anyone can provide me with info on how to run NO dizzy coil on plug setup and if its possible with hondata or on a honda ecu?? is there a way to pick up the cylinder signal by adding a crank position sensor?? thanks in advance
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,770
Likes: 2
From: Florida
Re: Coil on Plug without dizzy
I've wondered this as well if you could transform a crank signal off the crank to work. The distributor uses a crank signal, TDC signal, and a cylinder pickup.
Quoted from another site just to add the material elsewhere for future referencing...
"T1 cam trigger uses a dual output hall sensor. The sensor uses 4 wires. Power, ground, hall 1 and hall 2. Hall 1 output happens when a north pole of a magnet passes over it. Hall 2 output happens when a south pole of a magnet passes over it.
The honda distributor uses 3 sensors. TDC, CYP (also known as #1 cylinder) and CKP sensors.
For every one revolution of the cam, the crank turns twice on a 4 stroke engine. The crank sensor reluctor has 24 teeth on it. The TDC sensor reluctor has 4 teeth on it. The CYP sensor reluctor has only one tooth. The TDC sensor is redundant and seems like it's only used on Honda ecus. Most engine managements out there use two sensors to properly time the engine. The cam sensor (in our case, the CYP sensor) is known as the Sync sensor and the crank sensor (in our case, the CKP sensor) is known as the reference sensor.
The sensor outputs to the ecu are non-hall output. They are called magnetic reference output. The sensor doesn't use any power supply. The sensor generates it's own signal from the collapse of the magnetic field around it from a ferrous object interfering with it, like the tooth of the reluctor.
The 96+ engines use another sensor on the crankshaft in front of the oil pump. It's called CYL sensor. The sensor was implemented for OBD-ii compliance misfire detection. This sensor is ideal for crank positioning. It's signal is almost identical to the CKP sensor except that it's muck more accurate. You won't need to worry about the play in the timing belt, distributor drive gear to distributor shaft or distributor drive gear to cam. The timing accuracy of the engine is much more precise from this sensor and you can switch to this using all OEM parts (96+ oil pump, crank timing gear and sensor)
The real issue is how can we produce the TDC and CYP sensor outputs. I think we can produce these outputs using a magnetic reference sensor (like a Nippon Denso cam sensor from a supra turbo), welding a small bung onto the end of the valve cover, and using 4 bolt adjustable cam gears. The 4 bolt cam gears can have longer studs installed onto them along with nuts to make the indexing possible. As the studs pass over the sensor, they will produce the output to keep the ecu content.
But there's a catch, this will only solve the issue for the TDC sensor as it outputs 4 pulses per revolution. The other cam gear can produce just a single output per revolution by using one ferrous stud and 3 titanium studs. The 3 titanium studs will not trigger the sensor.
To construct the studs you'll simply need longer bolts and saw off the heads. M6 X 25 mm titanium bolts won't break your bank.
This is one way to completely get rid of the troublesome distributor all together.
This would become a whole lot easier if Hondata can somehow figure out a method of completely removing the TDC sensor of the engine management. Can this be done?"
https://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17658
Quoted from another site just to add the material elsewhere for future referencing...
"T1 cam trigger uses a dual output hall sensor. The sensor uses 4 wires. Power, ground, hall 1 and hall 2. Hall 1 output happens when a north pole of a magnet passes over it. Hall 2 output happens when a south pole of a magnet passes over it.
The honda distributor uses 3 sensors. TDC, CYP (also known as #1 cylinder) and CKP sensors.
For every one revolution of the cam, the crank turns twice on a 4 stroke engine. The crank sensor reluctor has 24 teeth on it. The TDC sensor reluctor has 4 teeth on it. The CYP sensor reluctor has only one tooth. The TDC sensor is redundant and seems like it's only used on Honda ecus. Most engine managements out there use two sensors to properly time the engine. The cam sensor (in our case, the CYP sensor) is known as the Sync sensor and the crank sensor (in our case, the CKP sensor) is known as the reference sensor.
The sensor outputs to the ecu are non-hall output. They are called magnetic reference output. The sensor doesn't use any power supply. The sensor generates it's own signal from the collapse of the magnetic field around it from a ferrous object interfering with it, like the tooth of the reluctor.
The 96+ engines use another sensor on the crankshaft in front of the oil pump. It's called CYL sensor. The sensor was implemented for OBD-ii compliance misfire detection. This sensor is ideal for crank positioning. It's signal is almost identical to the CKP sensor except that it's muck more accurate. You won't need to worry about the play in the timing belt, distributor drive gear to distributor shaft or distributor drive gear to cam. The timing accuracy of the engine is much more precise from this sensor and you can switch to this using all OEM parts (96+ oil pump, crank timing gear and sensor)
The real issue is how can we produce the TDC and CYP sensor outputs. I think we can produce these outputs using a magnetic reference sensor (like a Nippon Denso cam sensor from a supra turbo), welding a small bung onto the end of the valve cover, and using 4 bolt adjustable cam gears. The 4 bolt cam gears can have longer studs installed onto them along with nuts to make the indexing possible. As the studs pass over the sensor, they will produce the output to keep the ecu content.
But there's a catch, this will only solve the issue for the TDC sensor as it outputs 4 pulses per revolution. The other cam gear can produce just a single output per revolution by using one ferrous stud and 3 titanium studs. The 3 titanium studs will not trigger the sensor.
To construct the studs you'll simply need longer bolts and saw off the heads. M6 X 25 mm titanium bolts won't break your bank.
This is one way to completely get rid of the troublesome distributor all together.
This would become a whole lot easier if Hondata can somehow figure out a method of completely removing the TDC sensor of the engine management. Can this be done?"
https://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17658
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 0
From: KillahKallih, Ca
Re: Coil on Plug without dizzy
I've wondered this as well if you could transform a crank signal off the crank to work. The distributor uses a crank signal, TDC signal, and a cylinder pickup.
Quoted from another site just to add the material elsewhere for future referencing...
"T1 cam trigger uses a dual output hall sensor. The sensor uses 4 wires. Power, ground, hall 1 and hall 2. Hall 1 output happens when a north pole of a magnet passes over it. Hall 2 output happens when a south pole of a magnet passes over it.
The honda distributor uses 3 sensors. TDC, CYP (also known as #1 cylinder) and CKP sensors.
For every one revolution of the cam, the crank turns twice on a 4 stroke engine. The crank sensor reluctor has 24 teeth on it. The TDC sensor reluctor has 4 teeth on it. The CYP sensor reluctor has only one tooth. The TDC sensor is redundant and seems like it's only used on Honda ecus. Most engine managements out there use two sensors to properly time the engine. The cam sensor (in our case, the CYP sensor) is known as the Sync sensor and the crank sensor (in our case, the CKP sensor) is known as the reference sensor.
The sensor outputs to the ecu are non-hall output. They are called magnetic reference output. The sensor doesn't use any power supply. The sensor generates it's own signal from the collapse of the magnetic field around it from a ferrous object interfering with it, like the tooth of the reluctor.
The 96+ engines use another sensor on the crankshaft in front of the oil pump. It's called CYL sensor. The sensor was implemented for OBD-ii compliance misfire detection. This sensor is ideal for crank positioning. It's signal is almost identical to the CKP sensor except that it's muck more accurate. You won't need to worry about the play in the timing belt, distributor drive gear to distributor shaft or distributor drive gear to cam. The timing accuracy of the engine is much more precise from this sensor and you can switch to this using all OEM parts (96+ oil pump, crank timing gear and sensor)
The real issue is how can we produce the TDC and CYP sensor outputs. I think we can produce these outputs using a magnetic reference sensor (like a Nippon Denso cam sensor from a supra turbo), welding a small bung onto the end of the valve cover, and using 4 bolt adjustable cam gears. The 4 bolt cam gears can have longer studs installed onto them along with nuts to make the indexing possible. As the studs pass over the sensor, they will produce the output to keep the ecu content.
But there's a catch, this will only solve the issue for the TDC sensor as it outputs 4 pulses per revolution. The other cam gear can produce just a single output per revolution by using one ferrous stud and 3 titanium studs. The 3 titanium studs will not trigger the sensor.
To construct the studs you'll simply need longer bolts and saw off the heads. M6 X 25 mm titanium bolts won't break your bank.
This is one way to completely get rid of the troublesome distributor all together.
This would become a whole lot easier if Hondata can somehow figure out a method of completely removing the TDC sensor of the engine management. Can this be done?"
https://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17658
Quoted from another site just to add the material elsewhere for future referencing...
"T1 cam trigger uses a dual output hall sensor. The sensor uses 4 wires. Power, ground, hall 1 and hall 2. Hall 1 output happens when a north pole of a magnet passes over it. Hall 2 output happens when a south pole of a magnet passes over it.
The honda distributor uses 3 sensors. TDC, CYP (also known as #1 cylinder) and CKP sensors.
For every one revolution of the cam, the crank turns twice on a 4 stroke engine. The crank sensor reluctor has 24 teeth on it. The TDC sensor reluctor has 4 teeth on it. The CYP sensor reluctor has only one tooth. The TDC sensor is redundant and seems like it's only used on Honda ecus. Most engine managements out there use two sensors to properly time the engine. The cam sensor (in our case, the CYP sensor) is known as the Sync sensor and the crank sensor (in our case, the CKP sensor) is known as the reference sensor.
The sensor outputs to the ecu are non-hall output. They are called magnetic reference output. The sensor doesn't use any power supply. The sensor generates it's own signal from the collapse of the magnetic field around it from a ferrous object interfering with it, like the tooth of the reluctor.
The 96+ engines use another sensor on the crankshaft in front of the oil pump. It's called CYL sensor. The sensor was implemented for OBD-ii compliance misfire detection. This sensor is ideal for crank positioning. It's signal is almost identical to the CKP sensor except that it's muck more accurate. You won't need to worry about the play in the timing belt, distributor drive gear to distributor shaft or distributor drive gear to cam. The timing accuracy of the engine is much more precise from this sensor and you can switch to this using all OEM parts (96+ oil pump, crank timing gear and sensor)
The real issue is how can we produce the TDC and CYP sensor outputs. I think we can produce these outputs using a magnetic reference sensor (like a Nippon Denso cam sensor from a supra turbo), welding a small bung onto the end of the valve cover, and using 4 bolt adjustable cam gears. The 4 bolt cam gears can have longer studs installed onto them along with nuts to make the indexing possible. As the studs pass over the sensor, they will produce the output to keep the ecu content.
But there's a catch, this will only solve the issue for the TDC sensor as it outputs 4 pulses per revolution. The other cam gear can produce just a single output per revolution by using one ferrous stud and 3 titanium studs. The 3 titanium studs will not trigger the sensor.
To construct the studs you'll simply need longer bolts and saw off the heads. M6 X 25 mm titanium bolts won't break your bank.
This is one way to completely get rid of the troublesome distributor all together.
This would become a whole lot easier if Hondata can somehow figure out a method of completely removing the TDC sensor of the engine management. Can this be done?"
https://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17658
thanks btw
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 11
From: CT, US
Re: Coil on Plug without dizzy
hondata makes a system:
https://www.hondata.com/index.php?_r...-pack-retrofit
https://www.hondata.com/index.php?_r...-pack-retrofit
RTFM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,267
Likes: 4
From: Conroe, TX
Re: Coil on Plug without dizzy
hondata makes a system:
https://www.hondata.com/index.php?_r...-pack-retrofit
https://www.hondata.com/index.php?_r...-pack-retrofit
https://www.hondata.com/index.php?_r...-pack-retrofit
Can I remove the distributor?
No. It is needed for the timing signals. See the CPR help file for more details.
I would look into AEM, Motec, Megasquirt or the more advanced systems that can support crank triggers and other race oriented setups.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post