Drifting is fun, I was so close in entering my prelude in it at the Hyperfest at LMS, if only I had some street tires to use on the rear..

 

I fail to see how anyone could get worked up over this at all. Its simply sport/pasttime/entertainment - big eff'n deal. And I don't think it detracts from a race weekend at all. At both Hyperfests at LMS, despite the rags and off-hand remarks, there were more folks lining the fences for this stuff than ANY race I saw. A LOT of the guys lining the fences were the freaking racers and instructors remarking at how good this guy or that guy was. I am not sure how it currently works but if an SCCA or NASA or EMRA gets involved with hosting these competitions, it could enforce its own rollover and fire safety requirements and there is no way I see that as a bad thing at ALL.

More power to 'em. Fun stuff to watch.

 

welp so i only drove by it, here are couple of pix from the outside.






here you can see the entrance to the track was closed off and lots of ppl had to park very far away and walk in...




'mo ppl walking... keep in mind i took these at like 5 pm (gates opened at noon)...

 

SCCA needs to sanction a drift day at little Talladega here in the sediv! It's got some really good spots to get sideways and it's all wide open with nothing to hit. It's perfect. (But I'm sure the track owner would be pleased. lol)

If nothing else, it's a lot of fun watching (as long as the people have an idea of what they're doing). And personally, I don't care at ALL who wins a drift competition, or what the sanctioning body "should" sanction and "should not" be sanctioning. I would not watch drifting to see who wins, I would watch it for the fun of seeing cars getting sideways (and/or getting too much sideways).

Simply put, drifting is visually appealing and if I could afford another tire budget and had more money to maintain the car from the extra wear, personally I would love to go out somewhere and just burn some tires sliding.

SCCA gets a from me for doing this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But I am told not to bother running a GSR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

All that hatin' off speculation alone?

I wouldnt ever drive in a drifting competition, but I am not going to make some huge about it. If you dont like it, go back to your HSR series.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I fail to see how anyone could get worked up over this at all. Its simply sport/pasttime/entertainment - big eff'n deal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

D1GP in Japan is huge after just its 1st year. It is a major statement of driving skills to be able to "qualify" to race.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I don't think it detracts from a race weekend at all. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not at all, it's just an alternative motorsport form that is extremely promising and gaining grounds rapidly internationally. Using drifting as a draw to bring more people into SCCA wouldn't be a bad idea and is probably what Mitch is thinking.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Now that I have moved down to Atl, GA I would love to run SCCA. But I am told not to bother running a GSR. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just noticed this thanks to another post. Have you heard this from people currently running the GSR in ITS, and if so why not bother? If we had the resources to run ITS, the GSR would be (and has been for some time) the car that we would build without even thinking twice. The few that I've seen run are doing very well, especially one down in Florida, even though it still has (relatively for IT) plenty of room left for more power in the motor. There is no (mechanical) reason why a well built GSR can not win in ITS, or at least finish second to this BMW that's currently destroying everything in ITS in the sediv. The only reasons that should stop someone from running a GSR are the cost to build and run one and the cost to fix/replace it when something happens.

Now back on topic. Drifting is cool.

 

on paper, del Sol VTEC would be the ITS killer... mostly because of the weight allowed!

ok, on topic content:



Ueo Katsuhiro's AE86... he won the competition.





notice how packed the grandstands are?



very sideways...



another shot of this beautiful car!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just noticed this thanks to another post. Have you heard this from people currently running the GSR in ITS, and if so why not bother? If we had the resources to run ITS, the GSR would be (and has been for some time) the car that we would build without even thinking twice. The few that I've seen run are doing very well, especially one down in Florida, even though it still has (relatively for IT) plenty of room left for more power in the motor. There is no (mechanical) reason why a well built GSR can not win in ITS, or at least finish second to this BMW that's currently destroying everything in ITS in the sediv. The only reasons that should stop someone from running a GSR are the cost to build and run one and the cost to fix/replace it when something happens.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Absofrikenlutely! Considering what that car has done on a stock motor makes me think this is definately a car - with the financial resources - that would awesome in ITS.

 

Last I talked with Tom I think he hinted that the GSR was not a great choice. I think that Ratcliffe said it would be hard to be competitive with certain other cars such as the BMWs at the weight is at. Giles said the same. I crewed on Friday with the ARC Motorsports guys and they said the same. Their general input is that the GSR at the current weight would get absolutely destroyed. I have heard this from more people than I can possibly count. Basically every racer I have ever mentioned trying to get my car ITS legal to said that the GSR will get pounded due to the ridiculous amount of weight it has to run at. Further these same racers said that merely because the chassis is a 96 I would have to go through some ridiculous amount of crap because only the 94-95 is classed. Further, these same racers have told me that a couple really talented guys with a decent amount of money have fielded well prepared GSRs that have gotten pounded. I did not just pull this out of my ***. I have been doing some research. You and phatty are the first two racers I have heard that think a GSR could do well.

Sorry to others for being too abrasive in the previous post but as usual you can kiss my *** RJ.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to others for being too abrasive in the previous post but as usual you can kiss my *** RJ.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, now that you're done can we stay on topic?

Thanks!

 

[deleted] forget i said anything...

 

ya know what this whole debacle reminds me of?

Porsche and the Cayenne.

 

&lt;moved paragraph to another thread&gt;

As far as drifting with a GSR in a desperate attempt to stay on topic, I'm sure it could be done given the right kind of turns. And to show how little I know about drifting competitions, are FWDs not legal or are they just not used for obvious reasons? I'm assuming points (or however they are graded) are also awarded for power oversteer slides, which is rather difficult to do while in a forward gear in a FWD car.


Modified by Hracer at 11:47 PM 9/1/2003

 

WOW! A lot of posts added to my initial message. I guess I'm against SCCA sponsoring this type of event because of it being a judging sport and because SCCA entry-level programs are already too full.

I have no problem with those who want to be drifters, and recognize that there's certainly some skill (yO!) involved. I just don't think it belongs in this club. SCCA is known for its safe events and for competition. These competitions are not judged, but scientifically measured through timing systems. Judgement sports don't really sit well with me, as the results differ depending on whom is in the judge's chair. A "national drift champion" might not be so had a different judge been present. Additionally, a judge can be swayed (i.e. 2002 French Olympic Figure Skating Judge). Current SCCA activities do not lend themselves to this subjectiveness.

Attracting todays youth is certainly a challenge. But the SCCA has a winner in World Challenge, it just needs to promote the hell out of it and make the fans more accessible to the drivers. It's amazing to me to that Roger Foo has time to post on here and other forums, but I've never seen Pierre socializing with the fans. I'd think that encorporating the SCCA's Solo programs along with World Challenge dates could really entice the youngsters.

The SCCA continues to state that they wish to attract more and younger members. But there are very real pains already being felt in the entry-level Solo programs. Sites are becoming more difficult to find, and rental costs are skyrocketing. At the same time, memberships and entrants are swelling, causing headaches for event organizers and fewer and fewer runs per event.

Adding drifting to the club, and expecting Solo sites and organizers to help is only going to hurt. Site owners I've dealt with are concerned with noise, safety and property damage. Inexperienced drifters no-doubt escalate these concerns and could cost the loss of more Solo sites.

Great that SCCA wants to expand, but I haven't seen any plans to fix the site issues many regions are facing.

 

Holy CRAP thats a lot of people!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great that SCCA wants to expand, but I haven't seen any plans to fix the site issues many regions are facing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most of what i've seen the speeds are low, the 'straights' are very short, and there's only a few 'turns', this allows much greater room from stationary objects than an autocross on the same site.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as drifting with a GSR in a desperate attempt to stay on topic, I'm sure it could be done given the right kind of turns. And to show how little I know about drifting competitions, are FWDs not legal or are they just not used for obvious reasons? I'm assuming points (or however they are graded) are also awarded for power oversteer slides, which is rather difficult to do while in a forward gear in a FWD car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're completely legal, but you're at a technical disadvantage. Drifting is not powersliding, and really powersliding isn't nearly as impressive as what these guys can do; but maintaining the drift via throttle input rather than just the brakes and weight transfer keeps the speeds up and adds another level of driver input. I've always loved to slide around my FWD cars, even my old GTI VR6 which required violent foot and handbrake inputs to do so. They can't step out and HOLD it like a 240SX though.

Travis, I think you're exactly right about this being like the Porsche Cayenne argument, but you're even more right than you might realize. People see Porsche as a sports car company, since that's what they've most famous for the past 50-odd years, but they've also designed or built tractors, tanks, and for that matter, motorcycles, pens, coffeemakers... So for them to build a tall station wagon and make it the fastest damned tall station wagon out there is no stretch.

I don't see much of an actual difference between drifting and, say, vintage racing. Granted, I don't know many vintage racers, but the appeal of that sport seems to be as a rolling, high-speed car show, rather than a competition to see who's fastest. Do you go to a vintage event to see heated battles for position and record lap times, or to see and hear and smell cool old cars with period-correct equipment out driving?

The bottom line as I see it, though, is that whatever drifting is, it's not road racing or autocross, and doesn't really fit here. It's held at the same venues, and requires similar car control skill, but if I beat you over the head with a checkerboard while you throw checkers at me, we're not playing checkers, you know? I've got enough other forums where I can argue about drifting.

 

FWIW, pics from the drift event

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=607141

 

driftin'

dont forget that SCCA pro (for-profit) and SCCA club (non-profit) are 2 different organizations.

I wish club would take a hint from pro and get a damn clue. Not necessarily about drifting, but racing and car classes in general.

 

As much as I don't want to drift, I don't care if others want to. Coming for the 240sx owning d0rift0 crowd, that's tough to say. Maybe I'm getting tired of fighting it. Maybe it's a latent sense of outrage over my hypocritical moral superiority. Or maybe there are enough serious people doing it to make it valid and enough spectators to make it worthwhile.

For those that think this is going to spill out onto the streets, I only wonder how much more we should do to protect society from these evil street ricing, drifting, dragging dregs of humanity? There seems to be this idea that if anything is popular it will lead to danger on the roads. Would that also be true if anyone in the US actually watched a roadracing event? And they already make roadrace parts for cars that just anyone can go buy and use recklessly. Why don't we just own up to the fact that we are superhumans for enjoying our sport and no one else should be able to participate in automotive endevours?

As for the skill component, I agree that it is not a sport. In my book, no sport needs judges b/c all sports are won based on some measurable statistic (points scored, time, distance). Even bullfighting - not a sport. Of course, other people's books don't include auto racing b/c it doesn't involve a ball or running. TomAto, TomAHto. Somewhere that Olympic "soul patch" guy is probably bitching about Dorothy Hamil's gold not being won in a real sport... if he's really that pathetic.

I was actually sypathetic for a moment with respect to the lack of spaces available to drive autox or drift events. But after about 30 seconds, not so much. Why can't you guys find space? Drag racing has venues. Is it that you want it too close to civiliation? (sorry, I would be one of the first NIMBY's in line if an autox was run near my house... those things ain't quiet). If dragstrips (i.e., autoracing with spectators) can manage to find a spot, so can autox and drifting. If you can't, you aren't giving up enough or you aren't trying hard enough. I say that only being glib only b/c when autoxes in the DC area are about 75% of the distance to the local race track.

 

I'm not sure if some of you folks missed it, but this is sanctioned trough SCCA PRO racing. The intent of professional racing is to provide entertainment, and yes in the area of entertainment money talks.

Perhaps one of the detractors on this post who really thinks the only purpose of SCCA is to service as a sanctioning body for Club racing, and its antiquated format and political BS, ought to request some information on how your membership dues are spent/allocated. I have no idea how they allocate dollars, but if you were to find that a good portion of it were used to fund SCCA Pro, then you might have a case in this argument. Otherwise, I think the folks at SCCA Pro are doing their jobs. Do a little math.... On membership dues alone (65,000 at $50 each) you only net out to $3.3 million which I bet just covers the administrative operation.

In the end I think that, if successful, something like this can only benefit motorsport enthusiasts by bringing more awareness from manufacturers and sponsors about the sport.

For reference I've included a statement from SCCA on who they think they are - this might be a good read for some of you so you know what "you've signed up for"

What Is the SCCA?
The Sports Car Club of America is a 65,000-member non-profit organization featuring the most active membership participation organization in motor sports today, with over 2,000 amateur and professional motor sports events each year.

True grassroots motor sports participation remains the backbone of the club, as 109 regional chapters conduct the vast majority of the club's participation events. The individual SCCA regions are brought together into a powerful national club, and the national office, under the leadership of Steven D. Johnson, coordinates and administers rules, licensing, insurance and member benefits.

Many of these regional chapters have their own Web sites. Here you can locate information about events they sanction, regional meetings and gatherings, schedules and results, regional officials, and much more.

Providing direction to the national office is an 13-member SCCA Board of Directors, elected by the membership for three-year terms and representing each of the club's 13 geographic areas. The Board of Directors sets club policy, maps the future direction of the club, resolves issues and ensures that the needs of individual members are met.

The SCCA's monthly magazine, SportsCar, offers lively coverage of the many different SCCA activities, and most regions also have their own publication.

The foundation of the SCCA remains its Club Racing program, as more than 8,000 licensed participants compete in 300 amateur road racing events conducted at the regional and national levels. The year culminates in September with the annual Valvoline Runoffs, which determines the national champions in 25 classes.

The SCCA's Performance Rally and RoadRally/Solo Departments offer a variety of events that suit amateur and professional competitors alike. On the "pro" side, ProSolo events and the SCCA ProRally Championship series are conducted, while amateur participants have Solo I, Solo II, RoadRally and ClubRally.

Race officiating is another important role of the SCCA. Every major U.S. road racing event is staffed by SCCA members working in a variety of capacities. The SCCA's 5,000 trained and licensed workers provide emergency services, course communications, timing and scoring, scrutineering, registration and marshaling for the course, pre-grid, pit lane and paddock.

SCCA Enterprises, a wholly owned subsidiary of SCCA, Inc., brings another dimension to the club—race car construction. SCCA Enterprises constructs and maintains the SCCA Spec Racer program, a single-seat sports racer. Since the debut of the first Spec Racer in 1984, over 760 cars have been built and delivered, making it the most popular class in SCCA history.

SCCA Pro Racing
In 1966, the formation of a sedan-based professional series billed as the "Trans-American Sedan Championship" grew into North America's longest continuously running road racing series. The Trans-Am series began as a showcase for car manufacturers, but by the series' second year several big-name road racers shared the spotlight. After a 30+-year history, the SCCA's Trans-Am Series has carved quite a place in road racing history.

While the Trans-Am Series is SCCA Pro Racing's most notable form of road racing, the sanctioning body also organizes, officiates and sanctions many other top-notch professional series, including the World Challenge and the Pro Spec Racer. Information on bygone SCCA Pro Racing series can be found in the SCCA Pro Racing Archives. Contact SCCA Pro Racing for details.

SCCA Pro Racing, Ltd., has become multidimensional in the 1990s. Not only does it sanction, organize and officiate these highly entertaining races—continuing its tradition of providing the essential functions at the track—but now it handles most of its own promotions, marketing and television programming.

 

One other thing....

There were a lot of responses on this post that assume from the press release that SCCA intends to sanction amateur Drift events if it catches on - that was never stated. What I read into this was that SCCA Pro is looking for new/different formats that will be successful for their "Professional" racing organization.

I still think it's a good thing and I would love to spectate at an event.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AKADriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bottom line as I see it, though, is that whatever drifting is, it's not road racing or autocross, and doesn't really fit here. It's held at the same venues, and requires similar car control skill, but if I beat you over the head with a checkerboard while you throw checkers at me, we're not playing checkers, you know? I've got enough other forums where I can argue about drifting.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Everything that Ausmith and HippoMark said was pretty much dead on, but I single this out as the best, and most true, quote of the day. Who gives a damn how SCCA Pro makes their money, as long as it keeps coming in. When SCCA club adopts drifting and it starts to hurt amateur RR and AutoX, then it will be relative here. I still think it's a bunch of sTunNuZ, but the fact is it ain't pertinant here. GhettoCarBorrower, post the dOriftO posts somewhere else. I'd rather see 20 cooking threads in this forum instead of one drifting thread. At least I can use some of the recipes while camping out in the infield at one of the ECHC races.

You say drifters aren't sTunNuZ?? WTF do so many of these cars have big rear wings? DON'T fuggin tell me they need more rear grip. They're a bunch of fuggin' ricers.

 

some of you people need to get some options vids and watch some real drifting. its not about tiny tires in the rear and lockin up the e-brake. the top guys in japan use race tires and at least 500hp. the hardcore drifters hate the stunnaz and ricers just as much as you all do. dont be so close minded talkin **** about stuff you know nuthing about