<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think a good number of people don't like the 'atmosphere' or the type of people attracted to these events. .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then these people havent been at an event where there is drifting. I've seen it at the hyper-fests and at an autocross in richmond I helped run a few weekends ago. Sure there's stunnas in there, but there were also stunnas that showed up for the autocross. Most of the guys were pretty damn cool, and as much as i hate to say it, more hardcore than most of the autocrossers i've seen out there.

If you dont like it, dont blast it till you've actually been there. And not just watched some video your buddy sent you. I wouldnt do it, but i have alot of respect for the guys that are doing it.

Just because the judging is subjective and not with a stop watch doesnt make it any less of a sport. Look at alot of the events you see - x games for example (good one frank) - those are subjective and pretty heavily competitive. At the same time, x games has timed events as well.

So... if you dont like it... dont go. But dont 'hate'.

 

Every other SCCA event is competitive in the same way - you against everyone else and/or the clock. My point about being subjective is that the SCCA has no other subjective - type events, and I hardly consider drifting a motorsports event. But apparently the definition is changing as we speak?

I'm not 'hating'. I'm making a general statement that I know is true to a point. I never said that real drifters were cool, I said that the following is not the most ideal. I see very few stunnas at autox, mostly because the regulars won't put up with them or be all that friendly to them. That might be wrong, and you do get some stunna-converts who become autox regulars or track regulars, but that is how it is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every other SCCA event is competitive in the same way - you against everyone else and/or the clock. My point about being subjective is that the SCCA has no other subjective - type events, and I hardly consider drifting a motorsports event. But apparently the definition is changing as we speak?</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're trying to be accepting and involve these guys who are into something new/different. I think thats pretty damn good, from an organization thats not always receptive to change.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They're trying to be accepting and involve these guys who are into something new/different. I think thats pretty damn good, from an organization thats not always receptive to change.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very true. I think it is neat that it is accepted now, mostly because you know SCCA events are safe and well-run. This adds some legitimacy and exposure to the events. Those are good things.

I'm just uncomfortable with the possible side effects of making so many different motorsports-type events so accessible.

Around here, everyone thinks that each stoplight is a chance to practice their launch for their next trip to the drag strip, and that each car on the road is a kill. I just would hate to see drifting become en vouge on the streets. Maybe it already is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Around here, everyone thinks that each stoplight is a chance to practice their launch for their next trip to the drag strip, and that each car on the road is a kill. I just would hate to see drifting become en vouge on the streets. Maybe it already is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm *hoping* that the increase in real drifting events makes the stunnas realize that it takes alot more than watching Inital D to be good at car-control, and that it makes them want to wait for the next drift event rather than "practicing" on the streets.

Although i bet most accomplished road racers would kick their asses at a drift contest after chris cobetto mad 3 of us sick riding in his busted *** BMW 528 while drifting

 

but like X games, drifting takes lot of practice and skills.

 

X- games is to the Olympics what drifting is to the 24 hrs of Le Mans. Sure, both are competative, but of a different variety. Drawing parrallels doesn't lead anywhere, because they're different means toward different ends.

 

Drifting is entertaining as hell to watch, and it's clear to me when I see it who's good at it and who kind of isn't. That said, If drifting continues to take off, companies are going to start making things that make a car good at drifting.

Street racer kids will buy these things.

Perhaps bad things will ensue? I can just hear it now. "With this Space Saver Spare Kit, I can drift around corners at safe, controllable speeds on my way to the office! I can impress the ladies on Saturday night when I'm pimpin' the boulevard!"

--Karl, ever the pessimist...

 

I think it's a great idea, for all of the reasons above. I used to compete in freestyle skiing (20+ years ago) and it was considered an outlaw "sport." We had trouble finding an area to even host a competition. Fast forward a couple of decades and it's an Olympic sport. Same with snowboarding, inline skating, and a dozen other athletic endeavors that are now multi-million dollar industries.

If you don't like it, don't do it. I would WAY rather enter a drift contest than run a TSD rally, and that's seen as a legitimate activity in the club.

As far as "attracting the wrong crowd" goes, haven't any of you ever dealt with idiots and freaks at the race track already? We had two rollover accidents and at least that many tree hits on the access road to Seattle Int'l Raceway over the years, from people driving like fools...

K

K

 

first off, i have been to these events. so leave that rebuttle at home.

second, i'm 22 and own a RWD modified import, so it's not that i'm an "old geezer that doesn't get it."

the SCCA is a business, it needs to make money, i understand that. in my opinion the SCCA is hosting these drift events because it sees a way to shift the demographic of it's members to a younger audience (as i understand it the avg age of members was getting pretty high), and hopefully recruit members for life. one thing that is most important to every business (at least this is what they told me at school), is their basic core strategy . Take eibach for example, for the most part, their core strategy is to produce the best springs in the world for various applications. Therein lies the problem. The whole drifting thing rubs people the wrong way, but it doesn't seem there is really a specific reason why it does. I think it's because drifting is a step away from what the SCCA has intended to do in the past. it'd be like if Eibach started making turbo's. They are probably fully capable of making good turbo's, but people wouldn't want them to. I could go into much futher detail if i felt like getting my textbooks out again, but i don't, so i won't.

Travis
who will renew his Midwestern Council membership early

 

I personally luv drifting... and want to learn to drift and build a drift car.

It's something that takes alot of skill to control a car going sideways around a turn. The only problem is judging... because time isn't involved but more of style.

p.s. its huge in japan and they already make parts just for drifting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fuuma0083 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally luv drifting... and want to learn to drift and build a drift car.

It's something that takes alot of skill to control a car going sideways around a turn. The only problem is judging... because time isn't involved but more of style.

p.s. its huge in japan and they already make parts just for drifting.</TD></TR></TABLE>

great. there should be someone sanctioning it. i just (and many others) think it should be sanctioned by the same type of group that does car shows, not the same group that puts on Speed World Challenge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

great. there should be someone sanctioning it. i just (and many others) think it should be sanctioned by the same type of group that does car shows, not the same group that puts on Speed World Challenge.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i would have to agree with you on SCCA shouldn't be sanctioning it... but i don't think it should be ran by some one who runs car shows either... it just needs its own division.

Road Racing has SCCA
Drag has IHRA
Drift has ????

 

I'm a mod on a 240sx board, so I hear about this ALL the time, my experience is limited to watching the Hyperfests, and talking to the guys online and at the events.

From my experieces with it, most drift guys hate stunnas as much as auto-x guys. They are very serious about what they do, and are very serious about improving.

There are very few actual drift competitions in the US right now. Most are simply training sesions, or "Drift Days." I wonder if the SCCA is planning to host these training type days, or actual competitions?.. it doesn't seem that they have made that clear anywhere.

I agree it's not the norm for SCCA to run a subjective competition, but it is the norm for them to get people a safe a controlled environment to enjoy their cars. Seems they are expanding their outlook b/c they have too.

 

in terms of site, any autox site can be a good drift sites. So in reality SCCA already have the intrastructure in place... they just need to think about training program, and other details.

 

I find it funny that the SCCA is sanctioning Drift Competitions. I personally don't see how it could be a "competition" unless there is some sort of measurement involved, maybe knocking over certain cones with the rear bumper along with timing the run... but I digress. I find it funny (like i'm a clown, like I amuse you) because the SCCA will do everything to keep the most arcane cars running but hide from new cars and technology (ie. Kirk's evil stepchild, IT2) but they adopt drifting...???

Victor Penner...drifting off the edge of the couch and onto my fat ***

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try to be a little open minded guys - I wouldnt participate in any drifting, but i appreciate the hard work that goes into the events. They're enthusiasts just like us.</TD></TR></TABLE>



I have a friend that always says that any event requiring a judge is *not* a sport, as someone mentioned above. I think "sport" is a subjective word... maybe saying it is less of a "competition" is more accurate, but even that is getting into a gray area.

If you think drifting is lame, that is one thing, but if you think it is lame because it is an unskilled non-sport, you're justing hating.

Is this going to be televised? I didn't see anything about show times. I for one would enjoy watching it and think it does take skill to drive a car on the brink of losing control, and quite fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm *hoping* that the increase in real drifting events makes the stunnas realize that it takes alot more than watching Inital D to be good at car-control, and that it makes them want to wait for the next drift event rather than "practicing" on the streets.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This was my first thought too, but I have a feeling that drifting contests will be no more successful at pulling stunnas off the street than autocross or road racing. Ever wonder why you hardly ever see the same stunna at local events? It's because they don't come back after their first event, saying "damn, that **** was embarrassing...and hard! **** that!" They would prefer to stick with their original group of hacks where everyone is a superstar. I suspect that the novilty will wear off when they see how hard it really is, just like anything else in motorsports, and they'll head right back to the streets. Drag racing is a perfect example. Legal drag racing has been around forever, and they have more amature opportunities than almost any other driving venue. So why does street racing persist? Because most of them are getting their asses kicked on a legal track with skilled racers, and that's no fun...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So why does street racing persist? Because most of them are getting their asses kicked on a legal track with skilled racers, and that's no fun...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I talk to street racers all the times. While some of them are hardcore, event the most hardcore experssed interested. For example, SVP is a well known street racing crew in SF Bay. They ask me about what I do and when I explain it to them they are very interested.

Most people street racing because they don't know any better, and also because it is easily accessible. They also think road racing/DE is expensive, which can be true, but DE's can be done with reasonable costs. I know for a fact lot of them spend tons of $ on tickets, impound fees, and mods to the car... so it's really not $ issue.

Why do I keep on push so hard for this forum to be more acceptable to newbies? Because I think the board can help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Around here, everyone thinks that each stoplight is a chance to practice their launch for their next trip to the drag strip, and that each car on the road is a kill. I just would hate to see drifting become en vouge on the streets. Maybe it already is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah man, I definitely don't want to start seeing drifting related accidents on the street. Could you imagine if you had a nice car like a Bimmer or Porsche or something that you parked far away in a parking lot so people didn't ding your doors. Then you're walking to your car at night and some stupid *** is drifting in the parking lot and runs you over...

But again it comes back to providing legitimate venues for people to practice...

 

.....I'd hit it.

ibtl & + kumquat

Maybe I'll make my turbo ff honda debut there.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Victor Penner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I find it funny (like i'm a clown, like I amuse you) because the SCCA will do everything to keep the most arcane cars running but hide from new cars and technology (ie. Kirk's evil stepchild, IT2) but they adopt drifting...???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, no **** right. I think the Integra GSR is one of the best road race friendly FWD cars ever built and of course the Type R is as well. Now that I have moved down to Atl, GA I would love to run SCCA. But I am told not to bother running a GSR. What?! SCCA sponsored some bullshit bling drifting crap yet they can't class the GSR and Type R such that they can be competitive? **** SCCA. Unless I ran Spec Miata or something I could give 2 ***** about the SCCA.

 

First off, I have nothing against drifters and those who have properly learned to do it. Let's keep it at this level.

But I think the SCCA should advocate proper high performance driving skills before allowing folks to just come out and compete in a drift event. Most of those who know how to drift properly are already proficient in the basics of high performance driving. If they plan to let the ricers enter and spin out around a course then I don't think this would be a good idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What?! SCCA sponsored some bullshit bling drifting crap yet they can't class the GSR and Type R such that they can be competitive? **** SCCA. Unless I ran Spec Miata or something I could give 2 ***** about the SCCA.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Last i checked, you raced with NASA, and this was a drifting, not road racing thread. No offense, but take your scca hating somewhere else.

 

I got there really late (~4:30 pm) instead of at noon (then I could've got in with the work crew). The Irwindale raceway parking facility were full and closed by like 3:30 pm and people parked some 1 mile away to walk there. My friends on the inside said the place was packed. The event was a huge success and you can be sure it will be covered (probably on the SCCA National mag and everywhere else too).

Drifting is going to blow up sooner than expected and be legitimized now that SCCA is taking interest. Like it or not, that is the direction. With the existing Solo 2 programs I think it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a good program that works.

Open your eyes people. It's just like how imports weren't widely accepted in mid 1990's, people aren't open their arms right now. But Internet is helping the world move at a blistering pace and I gurantee this time it will not take years. The demographics is exactly what SCCA is after.