<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SUPERAUTOBACS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont understand. Match what? Isnt that exactly what the drifters are doing? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Youre right, you dont understand. That's Gilles V. There's a very, very fine line b/w a car that's going through a corner as fast as possible (in a demured 4 wheeled drift) and a stunnarific slide with lots of tire smoke.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Youre right, you dont understand. That's Gilles V. There's a very, very fine line b/w a car that's going through a corner as fast as possible (in a demured 4 wheeled drift) and a stunnarific slide with lots of tire smoke.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. In fact, to take it a step further, I'd like to see ANY current professional race car driver match the things Gilles did. Go read about Michael Schumacher's impressions of the early 80s Ferrari F1 he drove a few years back, and notice the fear he had for the vehicle; despite his many accomplishments, Michael Schumacher isn't nearly the driver that Gilles Villeneuve was. He died two years before I was born but hes in the top 5 in my list of favorite racers.

 

i think i must've worn out that Dijon tape watching it AGAIN and again and again.

 

I have to admit, I was into the idea of drifting 4 years ago when I saw the Initial D series for the first time. It was all fun and new, but it kinda got thrown on the 2F2F bandwagon. Where it turned into a new "hip" Japanese racing scene, or so the myth went.

Drifting is like Need for Speed Underground, its cool for the first 5 min, but after that its kinda lame.

My question is, when going down a solom and hitting the hair pin/ U-turn to go back down the solom. If I was to throw my back end out of my EK to get around the last cone, would that be considered drifting, and would i get docked for it? I mean thats kinda what you are suppose to do in a FF car in those types of turns.

I have a funny video of some guy I know "driftin" around this turn, and then he jacks the curb distroys the right side of his suspension. Its really funny, ill try to remember to upload it. Perfect example of what we are bitching about. =P

 

First off, let me introduce myself as this is my first post. I'm friends and aquaintances with a few East coast guys from here.

2nd I am a "drifter" if that's a classification, I'm just a person who enjoys what I do. I've been driving in motorsports for about 8 years (when I was 12) I started in go-karts (oval and road racoing), then autoX when I got my liscense, I now drift.

I found an event about 2.5 years ago @ summit point, WV where i've grown up. After that first drift time on track, I was hooked, I was not in it for fame, or glory or magazine coverage.

I love it, It's a blast, I realize it's not racing, it is however a motorsport, two things are good for all the coverage. There will be a-lot of support for events, and a more widespread knowledge of the sport.

Unfortunately it seems as if this sport is being forced upon many. I hate that part, all the advertisement and political sponsorship BULL ****...I hate how commercial it's getting. It is making for a great US aftermarket for the common "drift" cars. Honestly I hate most people in it, all the elitists, In fact I hate elitists in all shapes and colors, Honda guys, Domestic guys, JDM guys, Road Race guys, and Drag guys....we all have a common passion, **** the differences and get in your car, stop bitching and drive.

The only two groups which I actually enjoy doing events with would be the http://www.dgtrials.com and my group http://www.lookoutdrift.com we are all dick heads and all hate everyone....our philosphy being guilty untill proven innocent. But if you too like motorsports in every shape like this. Try and drive an event even if w/ an FF car, it's really a blast, if you don't like it, you don't like it but @ least you tried and didn't rant about how shitty it is, when you've never driven or even ridden. In Fact anyone who wants rides...I will be instructing @ this weekend's event in Richmond, VA http://www.lookoutdrift.com for details,

I believe it is free to spectate, and even get a ride as long as with an instructor.

I'll be a skinny funny looking jew kid, big nose and a camo flaming gay trucker hat that even says "Look Out Drift" that's how gay I am for motorsports and these awesome groups....honestly if it weren't for the people I know locally, i would have abandoned the sport years ago. Thanks for your time!

Oh yeah, if you couldn't tell, I think I have ADD

 

2004.4.21


That photo of the Champ/F1 styled car...that's exactly what I'm talking about!


I can tell that the majority of responders to this forum topic think drifting is all a "show" thing...not really...but then again, I wouldn't blame you for the inclination towards that viewpoint.

I believe some of the best drivers, such as Gilles V., Tsuchiya K., Taniguchi N., and even Aryton Senna all made use of the "drift." OK OK, not like the drift event shows you see popping up these days, but those drivers used drifting as a tool...that's more of what I was thinking about when I originally started this topic. In regards to AutoX and Road Racing, I was wondering what other people had for perspective/opinion when they think of "Drift."

OH...and the 180 degree U-turn after a slalom, that's NOT a drift. It LOOKS like a drift, but it's just a half-spin. A "Drift" is a controlled, DELIBERATE slide through 2 points (i.e. a hairpin or a sweeper).

Anyways, glad to see the topic still going with so many different responses. Keep'em coming!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OptionMan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In regards to AutoX and Road Racing, I was wondering what other people had for perspective/opinion when they think of "Drift."
</TD></TR></TABLE>

"Drift" in this context is a great thing to master and something that the good drivers are great at. It's what will get you out of trouble and keep you on the track instead of spinning off and likely hitting something. I've also noticed that the autox/road race drivers who have a good feel for "drift" (I see it in the same light as good car control) are also those who will be fast in the wet, since they will not be afraid to constantly push the car to the changing limits of adhesion of a wet or drying track.

However, as important as good car control is, I have not yet seen or encountered an autox/road race driver that will purposely get the car in a drift (as in getting it sideways enough to smoke the tires) for the sole purpose of going faster.

 

"drifting," is not a tool used by good race drivers to go fast, "drifting," is what happens when you screw up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"drifting," is not a tool used by good race drivers to go fast, "drifting," is what happens when you screw up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
"Don't lower yourself to an idiot, he will beat you with expierence....."
drifting is a tool of a racer atleast a skilled one, ever watched any rally?, any motorsport without your beloved limited slip.
point is your basing all your knowledge of drifting off racing.
Do not expect a response from me after this, i need not lower my self to your level, but ITS NOT A RACE! Never has been even slightly suggested this to be one.
This has been your reality wake up call.


Modified by iggyracer at 3:55 PM 4/22/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"drifting," is not a tool used by good race drivers to go fast, "drifting," is what happens when you screw up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure it is... it's all by degree. A good racer's slip angle is just much much smaller (read: faster) and therefore harder to see.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sure it is... it's all by degree. A good racer's slip angle is just much much smaller (read: faster) and therefore harder to see.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was waiting for somebody to call me on that.

i think my point was made.

 

My take on drifitng is this:

1: if it gets more of the younger crowd to participate in sanctioned motorsports/events, why not? It gets them off the streets in a controlled enviroment, opening up the doors to maybe future participation in other types of events.

2: It shows japanese manufacturers that there is a demand for their high end parts; not just for drifitng but also for road racing. So then they will be more inclined to import their parts. Isn't this something we would all like, especially since this is a honda forum. Where it is hard enough to get specialized racing suspension i.e. camber kits, suspension links, rod ends, etc.

3: if interest is increased, that means there will be more spectators, racers, and companies looking to back the racers.

I think NASA and SCCA are doing the right thing, by adding drifting events to some of their race weekends. They get more coverage, more spectators, and possibly the interest of car enthusiasts, that dream about racing, autocrossing, drifting, what ever.

Just my $.02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sil80_drifty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo why is it that stupid honda owners dont like drifting could it be that becuz most hondas cant drift!!!! you idiots dont like it

if it dont slide it anit a ride</TD></TR></TABLE>

Y0, you got bagz on your whip, dawg? tiiiiiiiiiiite. cuz if it donT bounce to the ounce, it ain't a whip, dawg.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sil80_drifty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo why is it that stupid honda owners dont like drifting could it be that becuz most hondas cant drift!!!! you idiots dont like it

if it dont slide it anit a ride</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you, mr drifty. I needed someone to remind me why things like genocide and ethnic cleansing still exist in this world today.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sil80_drifty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo why is it that stupid honda owners dont like drifting could it be that becuz most hondas cant drift!!!! you idiots dont like it

if it dont slide it anit a ride</TD></TR></TABLE>

Admin_vote_kick sil80_drifty

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Drifting as a faster way around the course is completely different than drifting to show off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Drifting is not faster. If it was you'd see indy/F1/SCCA/HC/WC and all other road racing drifting during a race... but you don't, why? Cuz it ain't faster.

Like someone said early.. "When road racing, drifting is what happens when you screw up".. or drive at 11/10ths.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sil80_drifty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo why is it that stupid honda owners dont like drifting could it be that becuz most hondas cant drift!!!! you idiots dont like it

if it dont slide it anit a ride</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not just Honda drivers its also the smart Toyota drivers, like my self.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Drifting is not faster. If it was you'd see indy/F1/SCCA/HC/WC and all other road racing drifting during a race... but you don't, why? Cuz it ain't faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>

99% of the time I'm sure you are right. Its that other 1% that a driver like Gilles Villeneuve finds that makes seeing it that much more impressive.

But I still think the drifting that is done for show is kinda goofy, even if it does take skill. My MR2 gets tail happy quite often on the auto-x course, sometimes I can use that to my advantage and pick up speed but usually its slows me down so I avoid it. Of course when it happens my friends will say "oh man, that looks awesome, how did you do that!?" and I just think about how much time I lost trying to keep the car from spinning. The only exception to this was last Sunday when I inexplicably lost control heading out of the last corner and spun across the line backwards without hitting a thing. That was kinda cool.

 

It's amazing how this won't die but since it hasn't...

Let's make the distinction - lost on most here to this point - between "drifting" as defined by signficant slip angles at the rear or both ends of a race car when it is going fast, and "Drifting," as the style-centric, phenom-fad-frenzy-sport-carshow thing. (I'll use the cap/LC convention from here on out.)

First, the primary reason that we don't see drifting open-wheel racing cars is because of the increased reliance on aero grip over the last 30 or so years. Downforce produces speed and to make maximum downforce, cars are forced to operate at low yaw angles. Tire development followed suit, as they were optimized for lower operative slip angles. Take away the tunnels and wings, build 600hp Formula Fords, and you'd see more pictures like JV above.

Second - I don't recall ANYone ever making the claim that Drifting is a racing discipline. It IS, however, a motorsport. Different. Not the same. Never has been, never will be, never claimed to be.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O'Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

99% of the time I'm sure you are right. Its that other 1% that a driver like Gilles Villeneuve finds that makes seeing it that much more impressive. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe what set Gilles Villeneuve apart from other drivers is that his car control allowed him during the 1% to save it and continue on, rather than spin out and wreck the car.

If taking any corner at such a large slide angle in F1 would really be the fastest way around, you would see it being taken in slides on every lap.

I bet that planning ahead of time to take a particular corner at opposite lock would also require a vastly different setup to the conventional F1 setup that by far produces most grip when the car is planted. Getting an F1 car sideways will make it loose a significant amount (if not just about all) of its aerodynamic downforce. That’s why they spin out so fast once they get sideways, and why it’s that much more impressive when a driver saves it.