ok, what are the advantageous to drifting in a road race if any? i always thought the fastest way around any corner is to keep all four wheels planted and hug the best line, but ever since the drifting craze blew up, everyone is saying drifting is fastest and all this bullshit. i dont believe that drifting everycorner will lead to a good lap time, but are there any corners where throwing your car sideways into will help you shave seconds? and if drifting isnt a good way to take corners why do the rally cars always drift into every corner on the tarmac rallys?

 

Drifting, as we see it today, serves no purpose except to look cool going sideways, it's not fast. I saw video clips of the last D1GP at Irwindale and I had a good laugh because it was so symbolic of a circus. I guess that's what the world of popular motorsports has come to.

Anyways, I really know nothing about rally cars but from speculation I could say that on the dirt and snow they can't grip and are forced to drift corners in order to be fast. Then on the tarmac they drive that way because that's how they drive and that's how the car's set up. Also, rally cars are often forced to take VERY tight turns that have no real effective race line so they just pull the e-brake and turn. I may be wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and if drifting isnt a good way to take corners why do the rally cars always drift into every corner on the tarmac rallys?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pay closer attention. They rarely "drift" into a corner. They do a previously stated use the E brake quite often to help with rotation in very tight corners. In the dirt it has to do with then need to change the direction of momentum on a low grip surface. Otherwise they would just understeer off the road.

Drifiting as you know it is a horribly slow way around a corner. If you see a slide or a correction as a spectator then the driver just lost a large amount of time.

Rick

 

When I autox if my my tires slide at all it makes my time way slower. you want to be right on the edge but not sliding. drifting as in come into the corner sideways and exiting sideways is so slow it's pathetic. There is a guy where I autox that drifts the course and for a normal 45sec autox it takes him almost 1:30 and he is sliding the whole time. the funny thing all the little ricers are like OH MY GOD HE IS HAULING ***! (To bad they don't check the clock to see that he is way way slower then everyone else, hell even the dodge dakota that autox's with us is like 30sec faster )

Also if you notice in WRC there is hardly any sliding at all on the tarmac stages unless a corner in covered in dirt or gravel.

 

Drifting is A SKILL and not a race line. Drifting as a skill allows you to take a much wider range of lines though a particular turn as any situation dictates esp if you take the entry too quickly. Regardless of what anyone says it's not a good "raceing" line as you wear out the tires far too quickly regardless in this manner. But being able to use it as a skill can help in many ways correcting things that happen on course. The ONLY time where drifting will be preferable to grip is VERY tight and VERY low speed turns.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kouki-EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyways, I really know nothing about rally cars but from speculation I could say that on the dirt and snow they can't grip and are forced to drift corners in order to be fast. Then on the tarmac they drive that way because that's how they drive and that's how the car's set up. Also, rally cars are often forced to take VERY tight turns that have no real effective race line so they just pull the e-brake and turn. I may be wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The recent dominance of Petter Solberg, and Seb Loeb is due in part to their slow in fast out approach to cornering on all surfaces. I have hours upon hours of Rally video, rarely do rally cars drift on tarmac. A few e-brake turns sure.

Remember these are full time 4WD cars, and on throttle they have the same push as a fwd car. So, In especially tight corners, it is equally fast (slow) to just yank the ebrake and point the car back the way it came.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> There is a guy where I autox that drifts the course and for a normal 45sec autox it takes him almost 1:30 and he is sliding the whole time. the funny thing all the little ricers are like OH MY GOD HE IS HAULING ***! (To bad they don't check the clock to see that he is way way slower then everyone else, hell even the dodge dakota that autox's with us is like 30sec faster )</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahaha...

At our local autocrosses they tell the drivers not to drift at the driver's meeting. I believe they would kick someone out if they purposely "drifted" the course.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtbprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have hours upon hours of Rally video, rarely do rally cars drift on tarmac. A few e-brake turns sure. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wasn't saying that they drift on tarmac, the OP did. The only time I've seen them drift on tarmac is when it's wet.

 

D1 style drifting isn't faster than grip. In some cases, it will help with rotation, track conditions, accident avoidance, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hahaha...

At our local autocrosses they tell the drivers not to drift at the driver's meeting. I believe they would kick someone out if they purposely "drifted" the course.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

there only allowed to do it during fun runs, when no people are out there

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pay closer attention. They rarely "drift" into a corner. They do a previously stated use the E brake quite often to help with rotation in very tight corners. In the dirt it has to do with then need to change the direction of momentum on a low grip surface. Otherwise they would just understeer off the road.

Drifiting as you know it is a horribly slow way around a corner. If you see a slide or a correction as a spectator then the driver just lost a large amount of time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah Rick is correct... On slippy/loose surfaces, you basically are drifting to combat understeer. Ideally wouldn't have to drift, but it is a compromise.

 

alright, first i want to say..thansk for all these great replies, i was almost certain i was going to get flamed for this question, but thanks for not ebing ******** and helping a noob like me learn so from i gathered drfting through a corner is only good to over come uncontrolable understeer with contralable oversteer, am i correct? and also in slow speed, tight turns, such as hairpins...right?

 

well, sliding the rear out may be the "fastest" way around a particular "turn" in very limited cases, but consider the rest of the track AFTER the turn. the faster you are out of a turn, the faster youll get to the NEXT turn.

if youre still "drifting" after the apex of the turn, then youre not accelerating and just scrubbing off more speed. the goal should be to get on gas as soon as possible to lengthen the straight.

 

I have never seen drifting be anything other than slow around a road course. Proper lines and driving win every time. Half the fun of going to an open track day is that you get to see the inexperienced kids drift, especially in the tighter turns, because they think it's fast and "a professional racing technique". The ones who aren't full of themselves learn and correct their driving, but many are self-declared experts and wont listen to anyone else, no matter how many cars pass them, so it's pretty funny. It gets even better when they get all cocky and brag about their lap times... until you point out that their highly modified Evo 8 is running the same times as a Hybrid Civic or a base model 4-cylinder Ford Contour, and about 15 seconds behind what it should be running.

The characteristics of dirt are different than pavement, and that's why it works for rally drivers but not road racers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Drifting is A SKILL and not a race line. Drifting as a skill allows you to take a much wider range of lines though a particular turn as any situation dictates esp if you take the entry too quickly. Regardless of what anyone says it's not a good "raceing" line as you wear out the tires far too quickly regardless in this manner. But being able to use it as a skill can help in many ways correcting things that happen on course. The ONLY time where drifting will be preferable to grip is VERY tight and VERY low speed turns. </TD></TR></TABLE>

For instance, trying to out/late brake (REALLY late brake) another car into a corner. You successfully outbrake them, but now you're going a bit too fast to take the corner grip style, so hang it out and still be in control through the corner. You'll probably be re-passed later on though because of what you just put your tires through. I think I saw this move in a F1 race video with Mansell and Senna?

 

whats faster for every driver is faster for every driver. There is so much more to actual racing than cornering speeds. For instance a sideways car effectively blocks most pases and can put alot of pressure on the guy in front of you as well, so in that sense it can be a tool.

However the best advice I can think of is, if you want to win you have to be faster than everyone else (duh) but in most cases that means being consistently faster. Even the worlds best drifters make lots of mistakes, the kind of mistakes that lose positions during a race or worse end up as a crash.

And even if the best drifters can make mistakes you have to set priority, push the car beyond it's level of grip and risk disaster, or find a smooth line through and work on your consistency and pace.

And WRC cars are a whole other beast, they are built on millions and millions and millions and years and years and years of R&D and technology. They can be incredibly consistent as they have 3 pilots. The driver the co driver and the ECU and associated hardware.

 

Wow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by : alexander : &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is so much more to actual racing than cornering speeds. For instance a sideways car effectively blocks most pases and can put alot of pressure on the guy in front of you as well, so in that sense it can be a tool.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're the only tool here.

You dont win races by drifting through a corner. You hold off someone behind you by running a defensive line - if you get all out of shape mid corner, what are they going to do? Just go around the outside of you at the exit. But hey, at least you'll look cool.

You are right that there is more to racing than cornering speed, but it has nothing to do with drifting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by : alexander : &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats faster for every driver is faster for every driver. There is so much more to actual racing than cornering speeds. For instance a sideways car effectively blocks most pases and can put alot of pressure on the guy in front of you as well, so in that sense it can be a tool. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I suppose it's a good way to hog up the track, scare people from getting close to you, and earn yourself lots of blue flags (and maybe a few blacks), but after corner exit, they'll just rocket passed you like you're standing still.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by : alexander : &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> For instance a sideways car effectively blocks most pases and can put alot of pressure on the guy in front of you
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you explain this in more detail? thx!

 

Last lap... last turn... Last race of the year. Second place is just feet off my bumper. He's looking inside. This will decide the championship. What do I do? Do I stay low? High? brake later? Let him go inside and repass him?

Then I realize. "Wait a minute! All i need is a good drift!"

TBC


&lt;please continue my story. You all know the game. everyone gets, let's say, one short paragraph&gt;

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gotocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Last lap... last turn... Last race of the year. Second place is just feet off my bumper. He's looking inside. This will decide the championship. What do I do? Do I stay low? High? brake later? Let him go inside and repass him?

Then I realize. "Wait a minute! All i need is a good drift!"

TBC


&lt;please continue my story. You all know the game. everyone gets, let's say, one short paragraph&gt;</TD></TR></TABLE>

Easy, throw your copy of "Going Faster" at his windshield.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gotocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Last lap... last turn... Last race of the year. Second place is just feet off my bumper. He's looking inside. This will decide the championship. What do I do? Do I stay low? High? brake later? Let him go inside and repass him?

Then I realize. "Wait a minute! All i need is a good drift!"

TBC


&lt;please continue my story. You all know the game. everyone gets, let's say, one short paragraph&gt;</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wall... boom... FIRE!

 

Here's a question for you guys that relates to this topic.

I know Top Gear isn't really racing. But when the "Stig" or whatever that guy's name is races around the track, many times he oversteers through corners almost like he's drifting.

Also, the other hosts of that show tend to get sideways A LOT when they race those exotic cars around the track.

Are they doing this purely for the TV show? Why would the "Stig" do this when he's racing for time so they can compare different cars? I mean, wouldn't he want to take the car around the track the fastest way possible, which would mean not drifting?

Anyways, just something I thought about the other day.

 

i think theyre doing it for theatrics.