littlebluecrx

http://www.intakeparts.com/spc-front...1996-2006.html

What we used to run on or ek back in the day... we would put prothane bushings in them...
You guys can argue all you want ... getting bent out of shape when people are offering advice about caster is really being closed minded... Feel free to experiment and find out what works for your setup.. Some people said they did not like positive caster so they put things back fine... I can just say from years of running crx's eg's tegs, ek's etc on a small tire.. with cars that get sixties from 1.49 to 1.55 and 4.0 330's on 24.5's I can give an honest opinion on what works.. We use the traction bars to even out caster ... most of these cars will have un even caster, we normally pull the wheels forward, a lot of times we even them up in the fender so the wheels don’t rub " you know back in the days before 3 piece front ends" ... Normally a little bit of positive caster makes the car more stable , if you disagree there is something else wrong with your car or you have no feel for what’s going on under you. After castor is set we do camber then toe... normally run around 3-5 degree castor -.5 camber and a total toe out of around .20... rear we leave stock setting unless camber is real negative from lowering car… These are generic and specific cars might need changes, depending on how cars respond thru travel, bump steer etc... This is more for stock suspension pieces not aftermarket arms etc... Take it with a grain of salt... but dont say false like your opinion is the end all be all ... Theres more then one way to skin a cat ...

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

If youre getting 3-5 degrees of caster from a TB adjustment... Theres something else wrong with your car

SPOOLINmatt

im sure this is a black magic area where no one is right, and no one is wrong.

Divers

Ok, I won't say what to do. I'll just say this... If the suspension wants to traval foward and you want to stop it do you (a) put a bar that keeps it stationary and instantly transfers all that energy into pushing the front bar? Or (b) put a rod under tension that aids the foward movement of the suspension? :p

ThE HeLLRaZoR

I'm gona have to say either way lol... If the wheels want to pull everything forward and you put a bar against them with tension pulling everything slightly forward in the direction they naturaly want to go well, theres bars there now everything is not going to go any farther, its also not going back anymore either. Effectively reducing wheel hop either way you go which is ultimately the goal.

Because my Moroso TB has a few differant settings I can use. I think i'm ever so slightly going to push mine back and use the Bar on the Top Mount location. Because this should stop wheel hop and slightly force my LCAs(Tires) downwards in to the Pavement!

littlebluecrx

Ill say this keep worrying about theory and tell me what works or go out there and try ... and long dong how many cars have you had on a alignment rack trying things out? I have more then just a few in the last decade ... maybe the wheels moving forward might help you do something your theory overlooked? Put a camera on the front wheel and tell me if the wheel moves much any which way you set up the bars, if it does maybe there is something wrong with your car ...lol if you start changing bump steer caster angle pro squat or anti squat , add weight disribution, paticular tire, how the track bites at the line down track, gearing power management all this **** goes out the window, but tell me again why one way works and another doesnt .... mechanical grip is something that can change depending on setup if you have the similar setups what you said and what others say are a starting point not a end all..... everyone here wants a 1000 whp, but only a few actually use it effectively...

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

You have completely circuvented the issue being discussed in the past 10 posts. Derp.

1FASTHF

You must not be familiar with the EF's...

littlebluecrx

lol yep

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

**** an EF. Im not going to waste my time arguing why CASTOR wont change for ****.. IF you don't get it, I don't care. Ive fucked with it on a single attachment point chassis that uses radius rods from the factory... ON a rack...


Id did jack ****.


Rave on

nonvtecallmotor

Or a Prelude for that matter.....



You should of done a caster sweep after making your adjustments...



If you install a traction bar on your car AND THE WHEEL STILL MOVES THEN YOU HAVE PROBLEMS THAT A TRACTION BAR WILL NEVER FIX....

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

Evidently youre not familliar witrh a CD5.... Same **** as the lude.... Single point... You can push or pull to relocate to your hearts content.. NEGLIGIBLE castor change. Period... Unless the rack lies, or your ***** fucked up.

Guess you missed rthe point I made earlier about deflection, adjustment sloppy rubber bushings etc... Its ok. Not everyone gets it.

redboost10

That prelude hauls ***. I can't imagine its light, what does it weigh?

littlebluecrx

lol let's cus to get our point accross... you dont go fawking fast enough! thats why you dont notice if any of these things.... make a difference ... cd5 is an accord... why would I be familar ...lmao!

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

Are you retarded or... Just have a touch of the downs? Curious.

You spelled cuss wrong too fucktard.

Have a nice day.

redboost10

what are your 60ft times in that big accord?

FRernesto

It's crazy to see how closed minded some people are. I'm pretty sure littlebluecrx has been doing this pretty long and his take is the same as that - that I mentioned previously.

littlebluecrx

lol this guy.... fucktard.. thats orignal.... I am having a nice day.... thanks ... starting my sport fwd accord build this weekend any top secret alignment specs you want to share?
please spell check all my post's for me so I dont come off as stupid...

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

The Accord is big and slow...

My car hooks ******* filthy on the street...
Theres no secret to anything ANYONES doing

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

TO be fair.. I didnt measure side to side after pushing them back (they are back a good deal) ...

Prob why I didn't see anything on the car (As honestly I EXPECTED too since it IS only a single point mount setup but maybe it IS there... Meh...


Didnt think about that

Im an *******, that I don't apologize for

nonvtecallmotor

Its started its race life at 3000lbs. The lightest we have been able to get it down to so far is ~2640lbs. The car has been in the high 1.5x 60' range and it has JUNK for suspension and all stock bushings...


I ignore people with an 11 second ride... Come back when you've done something to talk about...

bigTom

i disagree... Using a traction bar is WRONG. Period.

A traction bar does what now? prevent the deflection/slop found in the OEM rubber suspension bushings? Ok, now what are these bushing designed to do? they are designed to hold up to everyday street driving for 150,000 miles +... correct? They are designed to withstand up to 150WHP? Correct? What makes anybody think that these will hold up in a racing application is beyond me; but so be it; whatever floats your boat.

Next question i would ask is what does the control arm do when it is under power; or as a car launches from the line at a drag strip? What is it doing when wheel hop happens? When the clutch is released and power is transferred from the motor, through the clutch, through the trans, through the axles into the hub assembly and from there it travels to the wheel and then to the tire... the tire attempts to turn forward hence opposing forces are placed on the suspension components; the lower balljoint is attempting to rip out towards the back of the car and the upper balljoint is attempting to rip out towards the front of the car. When this happens a tremendous strain is put into the OEM rubber bushing and they cant handle it! Now depending on the life (length of use+ type of use) of the bushing differant things may happen; wheel hop being one of them. The control arm can ocscilate back and forth producing a less than ideal suspension condition in which no point in the suspension is in a fixed rigid position which im sure everyone can agree upon is an undesired result.

What is the solution to this? Solidify the suspension joints to eliminate this inconsistant slop? Traction bars were developed as an inexpensive alternative to accomplish this. They prevent the unwanted back and forth motion of the control arm during a launch. It creates a more consistant suspension; BUT... still not ideal... its only a bandaid. and depending on how worn or abused your bushing are and how much power you put to it... a traction bar may not even work! I look at it like f@#$ing your sister... you can do it... but it doesnt make it right.

So now how would someone go about solidifying their suspension components to prevent any unwanted movement? Spherical bearings! Spherical bearings allow for a full motion of the suspension but without the inconsistant slop found in the rubber bushings. The problem with this type of conversion is when dealing with spherical bearings stricter tolerances must be met then with rubber bushings therefore increasing the cost of a modification like this most of the time and someone who is skilled and experienced with spherical bearings needs to install them as they're are many issues that one can come across and easily make a costly inexperienced mistake.

as far as caster is concerned first one needs a proper way to adjust caster... pulling and yanking on OEM rubber bushings is NOT correct... ie; WRONG! an adjustable arm is needed either up top, on the bottom, or some other piece to be made or fabricated to specifically adjust the caster... but then i question what is the benefit of increased caster? i can understand in a street car or a road coarse car because that has everything to due with how much driver input (which translates to driver fatigue) is needed to turn the wheel and the tendency of the wheel to return to its original straight position... but who really cares about all that when you go in a straight line? if your alignment is correct and your bushings arent jumping around all over the place then the car will go straight... otherwise something is wrong... but caster will do nothing as far as helping a car go straight... FWIW i personally like higher casters on drag cars... in the range of 7-10 degrees just so the wheel has a higher tendency to actually stay straight! but you can only build that into a suspension normally... a factory suspension can only normally be slightly modified from OEM.

just my 2 pennies...

nonvtecallmotor

Caster is what makes a car go straight. If caster isn't even it will pull regardless of what toes is. I try to make camber even whatever (push or pull) it takes without binding up the suspension. I check that too.

My biggest concern is bump steer....

j-bird20

Put some spherical bearings in a EF lower control arm with a traction bar other than INNOVATIVE's and see wut happens. Its not something u would want to see after spending $500 bucks on a solid lower control arms. Ask me how i know. I only can speak for EF owners though.

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

THANK YOU for addressing the TOP of the god-damn axis :O)


Dont bother trying to reason with a few of the geniuses in here... Try pushing those solid bushings... LOL... Derp. THe FAST cars arent using a ******* bar anyways LOL.


Theres no point... **** odds are I was going tens in Mopar 340 garbage (When tens were fast) before half of the dipshits spouting off here had made it out the ******** yet LOL.

MY car? ****... 9 second motor, 10 second car 11 second driver... ;O) Its big comfy and 99 percent street car. By intent. If I want to go fast, It wont be in a Wrong wheel drive car. Too much working against it.