Traction Bar Preload
How are traction bars supposed to be preloaded? Right now I have my full race ones pulling towards the front of the car about a 1/4 turn and it just doesnt feel right.
I also keep reading conflicting information on how they are to be adjusted. I havent been doing it with the car on the ground which may an issue, but when I get home today Im going to take all the preload out of it and set it with the car on the ground. |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
Caster is what's adjusted with TB and the rule of thumb is between 3-5 degrees of caster.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
yea I was wondering also, ill be getting my car aligned before the next track day (the 18th). My traction bars seems to only be able to push the control arms towards the rear. The first pass i made the car almost pulled me into the wall coming thru the trap on an 1/8th mile track. this has never happened until I put the bars on. I'm hoping the alignment will fix it.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
You need to ensure caster is even on both sides or else pulling to one side will happen.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
So they are supposed to be set to pull towards the front ? (or whatever it takes to get 3-5 deg)
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
I wouldn't pull on then too much. All you will be doing is binding all your new bushings up. All I did was install them with the car in the air, tightened the bars till they were snug (no play), and then tightened all the jam nuts to lock it in place.
Once I lowered the car back down onto the ground, I drove it over and had Quinn align the car for me. May not be the "technical" way to do it, but my car goes straight as an arrow. |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
Your suspension will have some sort of natural caster whether it be positive or negative. This needs to be done while getting an alignment, positive caster is better for straight line performance but hinders cornering. Big heavy cars have no caster or even some negative to help making turning easier. That's what caster affects in suspension.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
I see. Well I returned it to a neutral position and it feels a lot better.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Glad that helped some and hopefully you understand it a bit more now
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
i have a ek hatch allmotor, sk2 v1 proS suspension, complete suspension rebuild with blox extended lower ball joints, moog upper camber adjutable ball joints, complete energy suspension bushing kit, bwr rear lca's, ex front lca's and sway bar, new inner and outer tie rods, buddy club rear camber kit, and a full race traction bar pulled to the front of the car as much as i could. then i went and got a alignment and told the alignment tech to not touch the traction bar(adjust caster). car drove absolutely amazing after alignment, turns and handles like a dream. now im cutting consistent 1.7 60fts and it goes down the track straight as an arrow.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by seelback
(Post 48761697)
i have a ek hatch allmotor, sk2 v1 proS suspension, complete suspension rebuild with blox extended lower ball joints, moog upper camber adjutable ball joints, complete energy suspension bushing kit, bwr rear lca's, ex front lca's and sway bar, new inner and outer tie rods, buddy club rear camber kit, and a full race traction bar pulled to the front of the car as much as i could. then i went and got a alignment and told the alignment tech to not touch the traction bar(adjust caster). car drove absolutely amazing after alignment, turns and handles like a dream. now im cutting consistent 1.7 60fts and it goes down the track straight as an arrow.
Jit, are you referring to Jason Quinn? |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by LightningTeg
(Post 48761758)
Yeah alignment is next. Played with suspension yesterday with the rears stiffer and car is a rocket so it'll be real nice when its all sorted out.
Jit, are you referring to Jason Quinn? |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
i had mine pushing and it always drove and felt good but everybody kept telling me that i needed to pull it forward 3 deg, tried it and did not like it so put it back the way i had it
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by FRernesto
(Post 48758673)
Caster is what's adjusted with TB and the rule of thumb is between 3-5 degrees of caster.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by andyKAIZENSPEED
(Post 48763506)
100% false! You DO NOT move the suspension with the bars. You just want them to have a slight preload on them in the PUSHING direction. Bars are in compression, not tension.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
As I stated vehicle manufactures will add or take away caster from vehicles. So if you have a negative caster on one side and positive in another you just do what you said slightly preload and leave your caster values off symetrically? That will cause the vehicle to pull to one side. So if you could please tell me how just preloading is the "RIGHT" way please tell me so. In addition some of the biggest names in the industry will adjust caster with their TB. Or if you really up your game you will opt to run spherical bearings and your suspension is rock sold. Which most members on HT will not do as is very costly and the ride will be affected greatly if they like driving their vehicles on the weekends.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
The front wheels are trying to pull forward under hard acceleration, you dont want this to happen as it hurts your wheel alignment, hence why you fit traction bars to keep them in their natural position pushed back.
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Natural position is NOT always zero degrees caster as caster is different in every vehicle. Caster accommodates steering!
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
So how to adjust camber near to zero?
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by andyKAIZENSPEED
(Post 48763506)
100% false! You DO NOT move the suspension with the bars. You just want them to have a slight preload on them in the PUSHING direction. Bars are in compression, not tension.
Getting 3-5 degrees off the TB? LOL... familiar discussion huh Andy ;) LOL. Were on the same boat as multiple discussions prior :O) You want to adjust castor? Move the top CA, pushing the axle axis back to get it is fuckn negligible at BEST (And that's on a one point mount Accord LCA, Ive been on a rack and measured it.) Pushing the wheel back has no where near the effect as swinging the top arm point to change the axis (castor). I DO "Push" mine back a BIT, but not to get "castor", simply to get some on the bar and more of the motor over the axle. Align from there...., but its not the same as a EG/EK/DC etc.... In pushing them back... I did it on a rack to see what happened to Castor. Virtually NOTHING. Camber? Whatever it takes to get the tire at 0 under power (Or close to it as you can)... Toe in/ ut? LOL. Thats another debate. Sometimes I wonder if the guys offering advice think about what theyre saying. Andy is 100 percent correct. What Ive got going on works very very well on the Big heavy CD5 chassis. Apply RWD susp. theory backwards (inc weight transfer)... LOL If castor was a serious consideration, and NOTABLY changeable by a TB, Any car with radius rods wouldnt have sloppy as fuck rubber bushings in it from the factory... Think about it |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
Someone needs to make adjustable uca's so all these guys that are so concerned with caster can have a ball ;)
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by andyKAIZENSPEED
(Post 48763506)
100% false! You DO NOT move the suspension with the bars. You just want them to have a slight preload on them in the PUSHING direction. Bars are in compression, not tension.
So your saying with my FWD Boosted b20 which i'm tryin to run some 9's with. It would be better to slightly push the Suspension back towards the Firewall vs pulling the Suspension forward with the TB? I trust what you guys at KS say, I just want make sure I understand you right. Because this go's against everything I thought I understood and have been told. :thud: |
Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by andyKAIZENSPEED
(Post 48780095)
Someone needs to make adjustable uca's so all these guys that are so concerned with caster can have a ball ;)
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Re: Traction Bar Preload
Originally Posted by andyKAIZENSPEED
(Post 48780095)
Someone needs to make adjustable uca's so all these guys that are so concerned with caster can have a ball ;)
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