Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
09-06-2011, 06:51 AM
#29
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Bob , That was awesome!!! I didnt get to see the run. But when I heard the burnout, I knew it was your car. Then I hear the announcer say "8.77" I was stunned. Awesome job this weekend. It was the wing for sure.
09-06-2011, 09:44 AM
#33
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
This is awesome! Very big congrats! huge mile stone in a fwd car! What a feeling it must have been to look down probably expecting that 9 second slip finally! and see an 8 with a period in front of it! and then to back it up again and again! Great job man and way to stick with it!
Bring it out to the shootout! running those numbers and that consistent you could run the table on the whole field! Be a great trip to take in your new trailer!
Bring it out to the shootout! running those numbers and that consistent you could run the table on the whole field! Be a great trip to take in your new trailer!
09-06-2011, 10:29 AM
#36
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Bob "Bringing the Pain" Stormer did an awesome job driving the car this weekend. I am glad that we could help and be apart of the project. Now its time to put a big-boy engine in the car and see what happens
Good things to come!
09-06-2011, 01:11 PM
#40
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Truly, if I could just say one thing about the whole setup, if you're working with a local shop, trust their judgement and listen to their advice. If you walk into Tonys shop, or PFI, or KS, or SF, don't tell them what you read about on a forum. Ask for their advice, and buy the ***** they recommend, preferably from them, and work with them on the tune. that's what they do, they're good at it! I was spending a HUGE amount of time second guessing everything and learning compressor maps and stuff that REALLY is not all that important to the average guy. Get to a shop, ask for advice, TAKE THE GOOD ADVICE you get, and work with the shop. There are great shops all over the country.
When SF built this long block in 2008, rather than tell them what to do, I just asked, "what would you do"? and told them my goals, and that the main thing I wanted was dependability, even if it sacrificed power. And that's how it all started. Was supposed to be a non-sleeved 300whp b16, and then it snowballed over the years.
Heck, still has headlights, tailights, blinkers, tilt wheel, factory cluster. ...lol...
I try to listen to good advice when I get it. And then I twist it all up with my old school V8 ideas, (and my other "great" ideas) and we get a path to take.
Without being long winded, the car doesn't have the horsepower to push through the air on the big end that guys like Tony, or Kevin, Reid etc have. That and the motor can't flow any more air. It's maxed out and nosing over pretty bad on the big end. Nosing over so bad at around 900 feet that you can feel the pressure on your chest from the seat belts as the car loses G-force before crossing the line. Needs a head, cams, valves... etc. Was never supposed to be what it has become. But I suppose that's how it goes with everybodys car, if you're honest about it. This is also why the MPH is SO consistent. It's largely done accelerating at about 1000 feet and just trying to maintain 167 mph because it's all the horsepower it's got to give. You can probably here me in the car, "C'mon little buddy, you can do it!!!" Unless we make major head related changes, I don't think it will ever have enough power to go 170. I've got enough power to go 168, and that TRULY appears to be it. Unless, and I do mean UNLESS, We can trick the car a bit. Like short shift everything a bit so that it's not nosing between 9-10k in 1 through 3rd. this would allow it to pull longer in 4th below 9k and maybe sling shot it a bit. OR 1/2- 1 pound more in the tires to cheat the gear ratio so it goes out at at 9k not 10k. Same with the final drive. All bandaid ideas and work arounds to the flow problem with the head and cams.
s300
Kevin had a lot of good advice about looking for the groove. Turns out, yea, you should do that. I had a pass in Malta where I got out of the groove and went wall to centerline. That sucked a lot and was not fun. I got out of the car and said, "if this is how it's going to be every time, we need to tune it back". What it was, was me being sloppy and not noticing the groove and not caring if I was in it or not (to much time bracket racing 12 and 13 second cars). It's important. Car goes VERY straight in the groove. The pass I threw the chute on (first time for me ) was stable enough I wasn't worried about having my right hand off the wheel. UNTIL I threw it then, DAMN... I couldn't get my hand back to the wheel quick enough. that chute stuff is no joke at 170. I'm glad I got the experience, and glad it's on the car.
old setup was maxed out on fuel at around 613whp. Then we did everything we could to max out the fuel system and put Kevins old "hand me down" 72mm turbo on it. That upgrade was all about getting fuel. Without the particulars, here's a before and after. From 2008 and today. If you look, one of the compromises to the setup I made is having the turbo inlet face the frame rail and not go out the nose with a V-stack like everybody else does. That's based on our track, lot's of gravel on the return road and insects on the track. Don't want to ingest thrown gravel rattle off a dude in front of me in the burnout box. We get hit with little pieces of gravel all the time. Every setup has it's quirks.
I think the wing helped a lot (at least I felt better that it was on there). I don't care if I lose mph, just that the car is stable. I have a few degrees of downforce on it and am channeling the air from the roof (sideplates) in a manner that I think will keep the car straight.
Biggest things... to me, the Albins box and the 26's. Added a lot of confidence.
M&H 26's.
Thanks man, that's almost exactly what happened. I was thinking, please be a 9 anything. then DAMN!!!
Fresh 26's. And watching tire pressure I think is most of it for me. s300 and boost by gear, nothing overly fancy. I'm super cautious with the tune. I like to work into a tune, and James likes to throw all in and tone back. It's a good combination of bravery and cowardace. I'm a sissy with the tune, and we go from there.
When SF built this long block in 2008, rather than tell them what to do, I just asked, "what would you do"? and told them my goals, and that the main thing I wanted was dependability, even if it sacrificed power. And that's how it all started. Was supposed to be a non-sleeved 300whp b16, and then it snowballed over the years.
Heck, still has headlights, tailights, blinkers, tilt wheel, factory cluster. ...lol...I try to listen to good advice when I get it. And then I twist it all up with my old school V8 ideas, (and my other "great" ideas) and we get a path to take.
I had a pass in Malta where I got out of the groove and went wall to centerline. That sucked a lot and was not fun. I got out of the car and said, "if this is how it's going to be every time, we need to tune it back". What it was, was me being sloppy and not noticing the groove and not caring if I was in it or not (to much time bracket racing 12 and 13 second cars). It's important. Car goes VERY straight in the groove. The pass I threw the chute on (first time for me ) was stable enough I wasn't worried about having my right hand off the wheel. UNTIL I threw it then, DAMN... I couldn't get my hand back to the wheel quick enough. that chute stuff is no joke at 170. I'm glad I got the experience, and glad it's on the car. old setup was maxed out on fuel at around 613whp. Then we did everything we could to max out the fuel system and put Kevins old "hand me down" 72mm turbo on it.
That upgrade was all about getting fuel. Without the particulars, here's a before and after. From 2008 and today. If you look, one of the compromises to the setup I made is having the turbo inlet face the frame rail and not go out the nose with a V-stack like everybody else does. That's based on our track, lot's of gravel on the return road and insects on the track. Don't want to ingest thrown gravel rattle off a dude in front of me in the burnout box. We get hit with little pieces of gravel all the time. Every setup has it's quirks. Biggest things... to me, the Albins box and the 26's. Added a lot of confidence.
This is awesome! Very big congrats! huge mile stone in a fwd car! What a feeling it must have been to look down probably expecting that 9 second slip finally! and see an 8 with a period in front of it! and then to back it up again and again! Great job man and way to stick with it!
Last edited by vectorsolid; 09-06-2011 at 01:48 PM.
09-06-2011, 02:55 PM
#45
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Still kind of messing with me a bit. Used to watching them come down bulb by bulb. Even though I know it's coming, to watch them all come on at the same time is like a slap in the face. BAM! I'm thinking if we don't re-do the top end, of going to a smaller, quicker spooling turbo. make for a better bracket car at the tree. Especially since I now have to run with the all the box dudes in Pro, locally. And there's really no way to beat those guys with our kind of stuff.
Although Tony is of the opinion, we have things in our community that could be made to handle all that kind of stuff in a way that is friendly to our kinds of cars. Just have to set the clutch like it was a trans brake.
Gotta learn something. Those box guys are putting up .008 packages... We can't compete with that. not yet anyway.
09-06-2011, 03:19 PM
#47
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
So what did it dyno with the hand ne down turbo? And when you say the head is out of flow have you had the head on the flowbench? please tell me thats it not a stock head on the car
Awsome consistant times, congrats once again
Awsome consistant times, congrats once again
09-06-2011, 03:28 PM
#48
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Just got a call from John at M&H, He wanted to give us some props for the 1.44 sixty.
That's pretty cool that he took the time, that's why I like that guy. We shot the breeze for about 20 minutes.
Props to M&H for poking around on Honda-tech and their support.
That's pretty cool that he took the time, that's why I like that guy. We shot the breeze for about 20 minutes.
Props to M&H for poking around on Honda-tech and their support.
Last edited by vectorsolid; 09-06-2011 at 03:45 PM.
09-06-2011, 03:46 PM
#49
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Don't need to put it on a flow bench, it's a stock head, just springs and retainers. Look close at the first pic, those are stock Honda cams. My personal opinion, fwiw, is that boost compensates for a lot of weaknesses elsewhere. Head being one of them. Spent the head money on a better block.
Truly though, this setup is absolutely maxed out. Not in a dangerous way... just maxed out.I'm actually debating leaving the head as is, and running a smaller turbo. It's still going to nose over at 9k plus, but it won't get to 10k in 4th as quickly. I bet it runs very similarly. but I'll be better off with a quicker spool on the line for a more consistent bracket race package. I dunno though, just me thinking out loud.
I have another opinion, don't take apart a good running engine to feed your ego.
Your ego is not your friend. ...lol... Right now, I want to get some consistency into it, and slow it down a bit to like solid 8.90's, adding more consistency. Like I said, I have to bracket race this car, it's not heads up around here.
09-06-2011, 03:54 PM
#50
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Skipped the 9's, ran 8.77 for a NEW PB. YEA!!!!!
Nice work bob! The car looked great and flew down the track. I'm still amazed by how much you've done with your simple setup. 
Btw, the date in your spreadsheet is incorrect
Btw, the date in your spreadsheet is incorrect