OK guys and gals.....


We have been plague with some engine failures recently and in the past. Our old engine builder just pointed towards user error, detonation or some stupid excuse just to get us to spend more money with them instead of telling us the truth. Our recent enigne was assembled by Jim Justice(BTW, is the man). When it failed on the dyno I was sick to my stomach. Jim offered to inspect it thoroughly and came up with some answers. It was detonation but it was not equal through the cylinders, mostly cylinder 1 and 4. This happened to us twice last year. We took his advice and inspected the harness, injectors and sent out the ECU. FAST called back today.... Our box has an internal software error that has occured on a couple other occasions in other peoples boxes. But it only occured with a SEQ. box with it set to 4 cylinders. It seems that the error will drop out an injector or two every 90' of rotation. Before you guys ask, no they will not pay for the other engines nor would I expect them too, thats racing. But Im telling everyone this so that you know for future references. BTW the 5bar software they have sucks! I beleive Precision helped them develop this too. (no comment) If anyone is running the 5bar or 4bar setup take a high quality leakdown tester to check if the software is interpreting the pressure levels correctly. I bet its off..

Anyways now that my engine problems are solved...here I come.


Howard

 

damn, sorry to hear about all the wasted time and money. blowing engines is not cheap! good to hear its good to go

 

Wow, that sucks...

 

MOTEC MOTEC MOTEC But I bet your already leaning towards that right? Good luck and keep up the good fight

 

I have one of those family graveyards at the house with atleast 5-6 engines in it...lol

Jacksons Auto Machine Jessup, MD......(all 5 engines roll over in their graves)

Howard

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silverskylinegirl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MOTEC MOTEC MOTEC But I bet your already leaning towards that right? Good luck and keep up the good fight </TD></TR></TABLE>


Uh....SM2 Autronic for me...lol

After the FAST systems are replaced im selling them for the Autronic unit...

ENZO

 

thanks for the heads up

 

autronic

thanks for the info......

 

That's weird and something for us to definately look into. We have FAST on several of our cars and they seem to work fine but there are other EMS's that I would rather run. Sorry to hear about your motors. Thanks

 

The mustang that ate bob's hand a couple weeks ago used to have a speed pro and they had very similar issues with it. Needless to say, now it has a motec on it and it won't go down the track straight cause it has too much power!

 

Pretty cool of you to post it up for all to see, rather than letting others ( including your competitors) find out the hard way

 

i have been using fast speedpro and alot of other fast all motor peeps have been using this unit. never had any problems with it was it the tuner that made the problems u had or was it the ecu.

 

According to FAST it is an internal firmware code error that we have no control over. We are the tuners, and never seen anything like this before. They said they dont know why it has shown up other than its happened before.

Howard

 

Kinda makes me wonder if Darrell *** and team Mopar's sequential FAST has the same problem. I know Darrell's a good tuner but his engines let go quite often...

 

Thats thing...we are pretty good with tuning here but dam! the engine would let loose at 20' timing AND 11.8 AFR. Reading the plugs individually they looked the same. But I bet the EGT's would show a different story. Now we are setting up or EGT's.

Howard

 

Is the engine on gas or meth?

 

The reason why I ask is because on one of your earlier post you mention it was dropping injectors under load. If the car was on meth, what type of injection timing were you guys running on the secondary injectors? Is it the same as the primary? This type of problem sounds like a error in the software to where if the injector peak current is not reach due to some low ohm injector with high capacity output. I don't know if the fast program can have a seperate injection timing map for the primary/secondary injectors, kind of like something similar to a motec software. From what I remember, Fast don't even have a map for the Injection timing. So in my thinking, even thought that injector are only open once in a engine cycle, there isn't a way to control the precise time to inject the fuel into the motor. So the injectors are closing at its very latest point relates to TDC Compression stroke, and since speed pro only recoginze a one tooth per TDC at its compression stroke, it has no idea when is the piston reaching to its power stroke. Maybe it can only simulate. Anyway,I don't think the 5 bar software for the eff/load map on the speed pro has anything to do with injector dropping like this, because its kind of like Interpreting a pressure transducer that measure 0 to 5V, at its different pressure output there is a A/D count for it.....The Fast software might not be interpreting the pressure site right on the money but it is still giving out a reading even if is right or wrong. Bottom line, Sorry to hear what you have to go thru... At least you won't have the same problem again with Motec or Autronic.

 

James is the man


NP you know who you are


Modified by zupamario18 at 1:05 PM 5/15/2004

 

The car is on Gas and only uses 4 injectors....so that theory is null for this application. As far as the 5bar software you are correct. We didnt care what the load columns said as long as it was rising up the columns and we were tuned properly for what the FAST system thought was where it was supposed to be. The FAST system does not have a user adjustable injection timing map which in our case is where the software was corrupt on its calculations. The MAP Config file that Precision/FAST came up with for the sensor that was used is incorrect. We looked at the way it calculated it and the values that were entered for the type of sensor and both are in-accurate. We took a known sensor and its values and put them in the equation FAST uses and it still interprets it incorrectly. Which shows someone needs to do there homework a little more to have these numbers correct. BUT when you use the old 3Bar software this is not a problem the boost is within 1-3 psi. The 5 bar setup was showing us at 35psi when everything else datalog from other equipment shown 20psi. Thats way too much. From what I've been told the Kubo team has seen this also among a couple other teams. If the FAST system was a Bank-Bank it would have never given us a problem when it skipped the injector though........


Howard

 

yikes.. I run the seq box in my car and have been hesitant to take it out to send it in for the 5 bar upgrade, I haven't had a problem (knock on wood). I did witness a buddy of mines box crap out but his was a bank to bank. Fast took care of it but none the less it was still a pain to deal with. Looks like I will remain at 3 bar for a while.

 

there is no need for anything more than the 3bar.....in the words of Charlie and Hunt.....its not needed even at 350-40psi....so go figure

There is a compensation table for the last column....I forgot what the name of it is but its in the Help files.....I think its something like AE vs something...lol...anyhoo its for the upper column


Howard