Im just kind of curious because this seems to be a tabboo subject because of business competition. Im really just curious what shops around the country charge for a complete long block build, or maybe what you would spend building one.

Basically....

B series, you supply the engine
Sleeves
Pistons and Rods
Machine work
PnP for the head
Springs, retainers
Cams
Gaskets
Assemby

Pretty much ready to drop in and go. Turbo, all motor whats ever. What price range would this run.


Modified by TREVTEC702 at 6:30 PM 11/3/2008

 

7k to do it right

 

Is this to have a shop do it all for you?

 

its not that its taboo its all about who is doing the motor i mean you just dont pick up a puppy on the street and say is a grand champion right , unless you know the true blood line and pedigre

 

So what are people being quoted by some of the very well respected shops that we may know on Honda-tech?

 

Since it looks like you have a shop, I would say you would be very well off to approach a local machine shop with a good reputation that you can work with. Not only for personal use but so if someone wants you to do their car you can have that shop do the motor and you guys can work together.

 

Does 10K to 12k sound like alot for a longblock?


Modified by TREVTEC702 at 7:07 PM 11/3/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TREVTEC702 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does 10K to 12k sound like alot for a longblock?


Modified by TREVTEC702 at 7:07 PM 11/3/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

That all depends on what it has for parts, who is doing the head etc.

 

honestly that seems okay.

lets say at most 4500-4900 for the block and 3000-3500 for the head.

I put those prices because noramlly if you pay cash its a lil bit cheaper and if the shop konws you will be back they will cut you a break.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TREVTEC702 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does 10K to 12k sound like alot for a longblock?


Modified by TREVTEC702 at 7:07 PM 11/3/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

for that price, it better make some serious power...

 

For a sleeved block with pistons and rods: price range should be $3000-4500.00
- what changes the price are the choices of rods out there and their different price ranges. Custom pistons can add $200 to the price from a basic off the shelf piston. Also depends on the type.brand of sleeves you use.

Cylinder heads, a fully done up one with brand name real racing parts should be about $1500-1900.00

Usually we'd charge about $500 additional to add: head studs, timing belt, tensioner, head gasket with labor to put all that, install the head and set TDC.

So a complete full long block with all the external parts put back on it is about $7000.00

Anything over $7000 is involving other customs stuff such as aftermarket cranks, extra portwork thats nto usually done on regular stuff. I guess you can also add a few more hundred if you chose to have a camshaft put in there as well as a new adj cam gear.

I cannot justify a motor being over 10K unless its some unique setup. For most people, at most, theyd be good with a $7000-8000 engine build. Most sub 600hp race long blocks shouldnt even go higher than $5000.00

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TREVTEC702 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im just kind of curious because this seems to be a tabboo subject because of business competition. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think its really taboo. Its just some are either over charging for their engine builds. And some are charging too cheap(but thats a reflection on what they value their work to be).

Overcharging is either simply ripping people off.

Cheap labor shows the value the builder puts into their work. A proud and experienced builder will not price their stuff cheap.

So you really just have to find the middle ground, where a place is reasonable for what you are getting.

 

Gentlemen, allow me to explain what's really going on here. The person who started this thread (Trevor, of Trevtec Auto in Las Vegas) has been bashing me every chance he gets for spending 10k+ for my 2.0L B18C5 road-course engine built by LDL. He goes on-and-on about how he can't believe anyone could possibly be dumb enough to spend that amount on a B-series motor. Here is an example of what this guy is really like; these are a couple of his posts from a thread on a local LV message board called LVRacingScene.com:

"So I think spending 10K to build a 235whp b series is a [freak]ing joke, almost so damn funny I need to see the invoice to believe this ****. Where are your invoices Tran?? Oh yeah, thats right you just borrow engines."

"You and I both [freak]ing know I can not call Dennis and get pricing. How come you mother [freak]ers wont say what the [freak] your paying for this ****? Maybe it wont be that bad, maybe some customers will go to LDL and buy an engine because it sounds like a great [freak]ing deal?? It HAS to be [freak]ing rediculous because not one LDL customer will talk about it. Its more than just me that wants to know. I have even called LDL and pretended to be someone else, LOL, and he just told me to come down and talk to him in person. I have talked to a couple that have came in here still laughing because of the quote they got over there but it was for more simple **** like Tranny installs and ****."

There is a reason LDL customers won't talk to him, he has a reputation far-and-wide as a complete buffoon. First of all it would seem his view of what constitutes an engine build, and my view is a bit different. This is what I paid $10k+ for:

Engine/Transaxle

Brand new B18C5 short block (minus rods and pistons) sleeved to 2.0L+ (85.5mm x 87.2mm) by RS Machine
Entire rotating assembly balanced. (fuel cut: 9200rpm) The engine was also built to run on 91/100 octane, or E85.
ARP engine stud kit; ARP head stud kit
Arias custom forged pistons; 11.5:1 (coated by HPC; piston tops and skirts)
Ferrea polished stainless steel competition valves
Crower rods
JUN III cams and valve springs
Toda Cam gears
Supertech Ti retainers
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
AEM FPR
B&M FP Gauge
RC 440cc injectors
RPM Service 72-70mm throttle body
DTR-FAB custom stainless 4-2-1 header w/ HPC thermal barrier coating
Mugen baffled oil pan
Accusump 2 Qt. oil accumulator (not currently connected)
JAZ vented catch cans w/ drain valves (two)
FAL racing fans (custom fabrication to retain A/C)
Koyo aluminum racing radiator
Samco silicone hoses
Mugen cooling system package
Toda high-power clutch/light-weight flywheel
JDM Honda 4.7 final drive
Extrude Hone, port matched, flow benched ITR intake manifold
Hondata S300 engine mgt., thermal barrier intake manifold gasket
Viton valve guide seals
Comptech Icebox intake
Vi-Tek racing ignition wires
Work done by LDL and others:
port/polish; open up combustion chamber to match 85.5 mm bore; unshroud valve pockets; flow bench; 3 angle valve job; bronze guides; balance crankshaft and micro-polish journals; balance entire rotating assy.
Energy Suspension motor mount inserts and shift linkage bushings.
Spoon Magnetic drain bolt set

Edit: Unfortunately I feel compelled to bring all this out in the forum, because this guy has been such a total pain in my ***.





Modified by Tomcat at 3:13 AM 11/5/2008

 

Was looking up stuff like this before and this place seems pretty cool. All types of different stages for whatever setup you want to do.

http://jgenginedynamics.com/Ad...5.pdf

 

Why dont you put a price behind each of your listed then we could add the total cost of what you have on the list?

 

dennis is a good guy and does top notch work from what ive heard and i see someone just pissed off because they are not getting the quakity jobs he is! dennis has allowed us to store cars with him and we have offered the same when he is in town! the do good buisness and thats why they get the customers they do! theres 3 main reasons why customers shop with who they do, quality, fair price, reliabilty. if you want your car done right you take it to someone who is respected in the industry and has a track record to prove it! its like if i lived in texas who would i take my car to? tony of course and if i lived in the new jersey i could think of 5 shop to take my car to joe@ tempest, felix, dont know his shop , brad rlz, and so on! these people know what it takes to make cars fast and if your piddleing about money or dont have the money to do it you might just want to learn to do it yourself because they get paid a decent dollar for what they do because they do it right, the first time.
one day i was having a conversation with steve "omniman" and hew couldnt believe the prices we do motor swaps for or builds. most people are always looking for the cheapest price but sometime the cheapest price means shortcuts or not doing it right! i always tell the customer to do it right the first time so we dont have to do it again or charge the customer twice! im a buisness man but i also have dont like to beat money out of people to do things twice so i tell the customer to save up for it or do everything in the head and block so we dont have to do it again, the rest is all bolt ons at that point and alot of my customers like that because they dont all have the budgets like some of the racers do out there! and they dont feel like they need to sign away there first born and there house!

just my 2 cents

 

For all that, I'd say you got a good deal. That's slightly more then a long block.

Either way, like most things in life you normally get what you pay for.

Good luck with the car.

 

My advice would be to call some of the reputable builders and ask them this same question.

ERL
Exospeed
Jim Stewart
Jim Justice
Golden Eagle
Laskey
ect....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A train &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dennis is a good guy and does top notch work from what ive heard and i see someone just pissed off because they are not getting the quakity jobs he is! dennis has allowed us to store cars with him and we have offered the same when he is in town! the do good buisness and thats why they get the customers they do! theres 3 main reasons why customers shop with who they do, quality, fair price, reliabilty. if you want your car done right you take it to someone who is respected in the industry and has a track record to prove it! its like if i lived in texas who would i take my car to? tony of course and if i lived in the new jersey i could think of 5 shop to take my car to joe@ tempest, felix, dont know his shop , brad rlz, and so on! these people know what it takes to make cars fast and if your piddleing about money or dont have the money to do it you might just want to learn to do it yourself because they get paid a decent dollar for what they do because they do it right, the first time.
one day i was having a conversation with steve "omniman" and hew couldnt believe the prices we do motor swaps for or builds. most people are always looking for the cheapest price but sometime the cheapest price means shortcuts or not doing it right! i always tell the customer to do it right the first time so we dont have to do it again or charge the customer twice! im a buisness man but i also have dont like to beat money out of people to do things twice so i tell the customer to save up for it or do everything in the head and block so we dont have to do it again, the rest is all bolt ons at that point and alot of my customers like that because they dont all have the budgets like some of the racers do out there! and they dont feel like they need to sign away there first born and there house!

just my 2 cents
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well said...


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For all that, I'd say you got a good deal. That's slightly more then a long block. Either way, like most things in life you normally get what you pay for.

Good luck with the car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm more than happy with the setup; thanks for your comments.




Modified by Tomcat at 11:11 AM 11/5/2008

 

If that is indeed the parts list, that is well over 10k dollars worth of stuff. I got 3/4 of the way down the list just "estimating" at parts and I was over 8k and didn't even get into anything below the final drive yet.

Quick edit: It seems like you have been a pretty stand up guy about the situation. I don't know all the details, but for trying to diffuse the situation before it becomes a one sided bashing fest.

 

Thanks for clearing this up. Now that we've discovered that this thread is a complete farce, it's locked

 

i called him from cali i got a quote from trevor he tried to talk me into to a b20 set in a type r. what the hell is thats ****.