<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALLMODA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only problem i have with the SSC class would have to be the weight factor.The reason i say that is cause my car is a 93 EG vx and with only taking out the back seats and panel's the car weigh's 2150lbs.

So my theory is why should i have to add weight to the car that did'nt even come from factory at 2300lbs

That's just my opinion </TD></TR></TABLE>

but my RSX started at 3050lbs with me in it, how it is fair for me? It is much easier for you to add 150lbs then it is for me to take out 700lbs.

 

dj4monie, you brought up some really good points!

I am just happy to see a real discussion on this class rather then the lame the rules are too strict. A lot of people need to look at the other side of the coin and realize that in order to get the class fair and equal it is going to take more people racing in it.

Racing is like voting and politics. I refuse to vote and I don't bitch about the president, I don't have a right too because I didn't vote. The same goes for racing. If you never race in the class then you can't bitch about the rules. Why would the NHRA listen to you if you never race.

From day one I have pushed the NHRA to make k-series cars a little heavier and all other cars lighter. I think this can and will even out the class over time. They did finally make some changes half way through this season and it started to give a ray of hope.

Weight is going to be the key to creating parity in this class and bring in more racers. All new cars are coming in around the 2800 to 3000 range. These guys are not even going to touch this class if the limit is 2350 or less. Increase the weight to bring in new cars that have newer motors and can make more horsepower. But, have the weight high enough were some guys might not be able to put, say, a k-series in a EK or EG because it would too much ballast (300lbs max in the NHRA rule book). I don't see swaps as a right and it only increases the costs of racing. Right now Street Stock, for Honda's is a k-series or go home, and that is not fair.

I know that when I won a bunch of events last season it wasn't that much fun and I would bet the Loan would say the same thing. Winning is great but most of us race because we are competitive and want to beat people in a close race, not in a walk.

We need to make the b-series, the Fords, the Mazdas, the Dodges all able to compete on the same level. That is going to take some creative rules but I think that it can happen, it is just going to take people racing in the class to give the NHRA a baseline for the rules.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

but my RSX started at 3050lbs with me in it, how it is fair for me? It is much easier for you to add 150lbs then it is for me to take out 700lbs.</TD></TR></TABLE>but thats the car you picked, 80% of the rest of the street NA cars out there competing are way under 2300. I dont agree with the majority having to make their cars weigh more than stock just so a very small number of racers dont have to take any out. If NHRA would make the rules closer to BOTI, IDRC, NDRA they would have more cars running at their events and give the fan even more to see.

I say we all just need to find out who we need to talk to at NHRA and get as many of the racer as we can to call and email them.

 

usually i would have a lot to say on a thread like this but i realize no matter what we say NHRA is gonna do what they feel is right not what we feel is right...so im just goin to wait to they make the rule changes for next year to decide what im doin with my car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efi2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but thats the car you picked, 80% of the rest of the street NA cars out there competing are way under 2300. I dont agree with the majority having to make their cars weigh more than stock just so a very small number of racers dont have to take any out. If NHRA would make the rules closer to BOTI, IDRC, NDRA they would have more cars running at their events and give the fan even more to see.

I say we all just need to find out who we need to talk to at NHRA and get as many of the racer as we can to call and email them. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I picked a car just like everyone else in the class. No one is forcing anyone to race a certain car in this class. I think it sucks that when I say, look how heavy my car was, people say that I picked the wrong car. Maybe you guys picked the wrong car if you can't figure out how to add some weight. I have never bitched about the weight rules, I built my car to them. In fact, I took it as a challange to see if I could actually get the car that light knowing where I started. I had a much harder task then any of the people that refuse to 100lbs to their car. As far as I see it, if you don't want to add the weight, don't run the in class and don't bitch about it either. I am the last people that is going to feel sorry for you because I worked my *** off to get my car to where it is and I have never bitch once about it.

 

most people prob dont run the class because of the rules, dr. radials is not a problem but people with their cars weighing at under 2k lbs with driver. its kinda hard to prep the car for a class then have to re-prep next week for a different event, when you have a 5-6 day a week job and no shop to work in, etc. etc. and im too lazy! and dont want to buy a 5xx dollar exhaust, 300 dollar tires, wheels, and other stuff, i could put money elsewhere and go faster in the class i like most... i think they should have street stock and a pro am a/m style class. it would definately bring more people. plus itbs arent allowed, which cuts another small percentage of the people from the class...

 

I run in this class and love it, I think the need a throttle body restriction possiable 75mm or so. I also wish it was [needs a muffler not the whole exaust]. The drag raidials are fine i cut 1.7 60s on them at english town with 11.94 et which i feel is good enough to be very competive in the class.
just my 2cents.
Shad.

 

I would love to run my car in street stock, but there is not even the smallest weight break for different setups. I run a NA SOHC D16 in my crx wich has gone 13's on street tires and that is with the car weighing it at 2000 lbs with me in it. I love driving on street tires and drag radials since it allows people to to truely hone their driving skills rather than pushing a 2step and dumping the clutch.
How the heck am I suppose to add 350 lbs to my chasis and somehow squeeze the needed power out of lowly sohc. It would be great if they set up the weight breaks acording to chasis and motor or simply by motor.

IE
EF EG w/ D 1800ish Integra w/ B 2200
EF EG w/ B 2200ish All K cars 2350+

Or just a simply weights by engine
D=1800 H/F=2300
B=2200 K= 2400


That is just a rough guess, something to somewhat even out power possibilties compared to chasis....if people can can get a weight break becuase of the powerplant they choose it might bring variety to the staging lanes. Variety is what makes full feilds and make for good racing.

Just my no name 2cents...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accuracy1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run in this class and love it, I think the need a throttle body restriction possiable 75mm or so. I also wish it was [needs a muffler not the whole exaust]. The drag raidials are fine i cut 1.7 60s on them at english town with 11.94 et which i feel is good enough to be very competive in the class.
just my 2cents.
Shad.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can tell you from a lot of the stuff that I have done that throttle body is not the problem. There really is not a lot of ways to slow a k-series down once you figure out how to make the power and get the motors to hold together.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BIGTUNA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would love to run my car in street stock, but there is not even the smallest weight break for different setups. I run a NA SOHC D16 in my crx wich has gone 13's on street tires and that is with the car weighing it at 2000 lbs with me in it. I love driving on street tires and drag radials since it allows people to to truely hone their driving skills rather than pushing a 2step and dumping the clutch.
How the heck am I suppose to add 350 lbs to my chasis and somehow squeeze the needed power out of lowly sohc. It would be great if they set up the weight breaks acording to chasis and motor or simply by motor.

IE
EF EG w/ D 1800ish Integra w/ B 2200
EF EG w/ B 2200ish All K cars 2350+

Or just a simply weights by engine
D=1800 H/F=2300
B=2200 K= 2400


That is just a rough guess, something to somewhat even out power possibilties compared to chasis....if people can can get a weight break becuase of the powerplant they choose it might bring variety to the staging lanes. Variety is what makes full feilds and make for good racing.

Just my no name 2cents...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it is a good start but, again, we need the cars going down the track so that the NHRA knows where to put everyone.

Also, you picked the wrong car.

What about a weight by displacement rule?

 

I did not choose the wrong car, I chose a car that I could race with in my budget and something I truely wanted to drive. Im guessing the majority of racers build a chasis or setup becuase thats what they wanted to build and then race that chasis in whatever class their setup falls into.

I think a weight vs displacement is a excellent start, but the problem with actual implimentation of it is now NHRA has to pump every street stock car to see who is lying? With modern day engine sleeving the block numbers are worthless.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BIGTUNA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Or just a simply weights by engine
D=1800 H/F=2300
B=2200 K= 2400
</TD></TR></TABLE>

they already do that.

“4-cylinder D Series, maximum displacement 1.8 liter: 2150 lbs.”
“4-cylinder B Series, maximum displacement 2.2 liter: 2250 lbs.”

that was put in place mid season this year and i feel it helped a bit. your idea actually looks reasonable.
-Roger

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BIGTUNA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did not choose the wrong car, I chose a car that I could race with in my budget and something I truely wanted to drive. Im guessing the majority of racers build a chasis or setup becuase thats what they wanted to build and then race that chasis in whatever class their setup falls into.

I think a weight vs displacement is a excellent start, but the problem with actual implimentation of it is now NHRA has to pump every street stock car to see who is lying? With modern day engine sleeving the block numbers are worthless.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I said that because people say it all the time to me, it was a joke.

I agree with you that it would be hard and put too much stress on the NHRA. If that is the case then they shouldn't limit the diplacement at all but I think that would also cause a lot of problems with the V6 motors. I would be a bigger fan of no displacement, weight by engine, and no V6 motors.

If you really want to see some crazy ideas for weight, here is mine.

d-series - 1900lbs
b-series - 2100lbs
(and all other motors until there is a base line for them)
k-series - 2500lbs

I think that would speed everyone up and slow a small group of k-series down. I think it would put the class in the low 12's if everything goes right. I know it is not the most exciting racing but it would create some better racing then we have now.


Modified by CDR at 5:21 PM 11/4/2006

 

I knew about the rule change but it was a flea fart in a hurricane....

Chris I did not take any offence to your comment, I was just saying that most people including myself dont build their cars for a specific class in a specific sanctioned race body. People build their car to race as much as possible and because they love their setup. Which means if one set of class rules are a mile away from every other sanctioned race bodies rules for similar cars than there is good chance their turnout will be lower. People dont like to jump thru hoops and completely change their cars just to get their *** kicked by extremely high hp K cars.

As for getting out and racing to show NHRA how they need to change the rules, thats great and all but its too expensive to drive out to a event which is many hours away to just get slaughtered on a hope and prayer NHRA might notice and might make a rule change. My pockets are not that deep.

I am just a nobody, but I am explaining why this nobody isnt showing up at NHRA events. There probably is alot of nobodies like me...

 

It might not be the most popular thing to say but maybe this class won't be for everyone and maybe there is just no way to include older motors and cars. All Motor is a hard road to travel and it is a balance between horsepower and weight and sometimes you just can't make everyone equal.

 

The motor we have makes 300 whp with a 75mm if i put a 90mm it pics up a good amount of power we ran the 75 at englishtown bc we heard they were limiting the size to 75. btw i own the same motor u did or still do. With no problem what so ever.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


If you really want to see some crazy ideas for weight, here is mine.

d-series - 1900lbs
b-series - 2100lbs
(and all other motors until there is a base line for them)
k-series - 2500lbs

Modified by CDR at 5:21 PM 11/4/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>


Thats a start, I think they need to look at power potention and base their weights off of that.

Just look at the potention of each motor, not crazy setups but a logical look at whats possible

D= 150's
B=230's
H= 250's
K= ????? the numbers are insane.

 

I agree with a weight by motor/displacement rule as well. Ks are making the power, more and more parts are on the market and more soon to be released. More knowledge will be learned this off season, more power will be made. B-series are pretty much plateaud out.

I want to race the class more next year and probably will travel more. I like the Radial rule, its tough, real tough. Really makes me work some.

I can take my 01 Integra to about 2150lbs with a lot of work. When I took out the Power steering, ac, rear interior, and misc other accessories, It weighed around 2300 with me at 150lbs.

-Francisco

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accuracy1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The motor we have makes 300 whp with a 75mm if i put a 90mm it pics up a good amount of power we ran the 75 at englishtown bc we heard they were limiting the size to 75. btw i own the same motor u did or still do. With no problem what so ever.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are lucky, I would change out the rods and the check the pistons then. My blew up because of rod failure and so did other some other peoples.

You really have to have the head to get a 90mm to work. I am just not sold on the fact that it would make a huge difference overall. But, the k-series is still wide open and I know that I have too many ideas and don't want to toss them at one motor all at once, I want to build so that I have a better idea what does and doesn't work.

 

[QUOTE=CDR]


If you really want to see some crazy ideas for weight, here is mine.

d-series - 1900lbs
b-series - 2100lbs
(and all other motors until there is a base line for them)
k-series - 2500lbs


Modified by CDR at 5:21 PM 11/4/2006[/QUOTE

This looks like it could work. You could take more off a D-series car and they still would have trouble keeping up. I have raced in 1 SS race 1 year ago and it was not for me. With that said you can not use tha same set up out of a C4 and add the needed lbs and still make the car work. The clutch was to agresive for a DR and the Axles need to be 10 times as strong. or you will feel like a *** all day long.
What I don't understained about the class if it is so much for the new cars or to get the young kids a place to race then how come it is full of race cars with $10,000 + motors. You can't have both with one class. You eather need to set weights to be far for racing close or major rule changes so the targeted crowed can race and win. People don't think about going out to buy a new TL so I can race SS

 

i think that 2500lbs for an all motor car is just insane...i dont care how fast they are and what motor they are using....there should be no reason an all motor street class weight should be at 2500...i hate to say it but ive learned from the past that NHRA seems like they dont really want to work with the rules too much to help out anything besides a K motor..so its pretty much you need a K motor to actually do good and compete to have a chance at winning points and takin home the 5k bounty...yea they made a weight break mid season but at the same time they limited the engine size...how do they expect 2.2L bseries to keep up with a 2.4L kseries with only a 100lbs. weight break...i mean to do a 86x95 bseries motor is over the motor size or a 2.2L alrdy...so they help the bseries by giving us the 100lbs weight break but hurt us by changing the motor size from 2.4L to a 2.2L so were back at square one...they should just keep the rules the way they are cuz when you get all these ppl talking about changing the rules and if NHRA does it then it could be for the worse...even though being the underdog with the Bseries the class was still kind of competitive

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmoutlaw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
With that said you can not use tha same set up out of a C4 and add the needed lbs and still make the car work. The clutch was to agresive for a DR and the Axles need to be 10 times as strong. or you will feel like a *** all day long.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think we both know that the two fastest cars in this class happen to be the two fastest in C4 as well! lol theres definately a different way to getting the ss car down the track and i too have learned that the hard way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmoutlaw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I don't understained about the class if it is so much for the new cars or to get the young kids a place to race then how come it is full of race cars with $10,000 + motors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i think there was at least 5000 reasons for them to try.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AllMoToRB18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think that 2500lbs for an all motor car is just insane...i dont care how fast they are and what motor they are using....there should be no reason an all motor street class weight should be at 2500...i hate to say it but ive learned from the past that NHRA seems like they dont really want to work with the rules too much to help out anything besides a K motor..so its pretty much you need a K motor to actually do good and compete to have a chance at winning points and takin home the 5k bounty...yea they made a weight break mid season but at the same time they limited the engine size...how do they expect 2.2L bseries to keep up with a 2.4L kseries with only a 100lbs. weight break...i mean to do a 86x95 bseries motor is over the motor size or a 2.2L alrdy...so they help the bseries by giving us the 100lbs weight break but hurt us by changing the motor size from 2.4L to a 2.2L so were back at square one</TD></TR></TABLE>

im suprised to hear you say that tim. you of all people should know that it doesnt take that much of a motor to at least compete. and the rule changes that nhra has made has made that possible. the k competitors are without a doubt dominant but like ive been saying with the right cooperation the playing field will continue to level out.
-Roger

 

Let not turn this into drag radials suck and the NHRA love the k-series and is writing rules to protect it. I would much prefer to see this topic develop some good ideas that could be taken to the NHRA and not post after post about how the class should have no weight limit, runs slicks, no interior, and on full moons be able to run wheelie bars.

 

The way that I see it, some can bitch about the rules all they want but what is going to happen when they can't race at NOPI because they don't know how to drift. I am just sad to see that long time all motor people are not embarrassing the class. The class is one of the hardest out there with everything that you have to deal with. Most of the true all motor people that I know love it because it is a challenge.

What I don't understand is some of you want to have rules that are just short of all motor. If that is the case, then why don't you run all motor? You get a huge weight break, you can run up to a 2.6L, no exhausts or mufflers, no interior. I like the challenge of making a street car go fast but what some of you are asking for as far as rules go are far from a street car.

 

Roger i know it doesnt take that much power to atleast compete...but lets be realistic...i only won fall nationals because i was consistant and Loan happened to slip up and run a 12.3 , i dont want to race the whole next season prayin for Loan or Brian to slip up...i would like side by side racing when we are both on clean runs

Chris...im not sayin lets have no weight but 2500 lbs for K cars is crazy...and of course i would like slicks because they are more consistant and the have a less chance of breaking parts but im not gonna push for that rule change...because even though i dont like drag radials everyone in the class has to run them also not just me , so its kind of a "ehh whatever" topic to me...my opinion , there isnt enough racers in the class to make opinions to get NHRA to make any serious rule changes...i say leave them the way they are and wait for the class to fill a little but more and see how it pans out to see if the same 2 racers are dominating by mid season