degree the engine!!!!!!!!!!

 

This was my response as well. The car made 525whp @ 27lbs SAE. It wasn't just peak power that alarmed me. It was the overall powerband. I even went as far as trying to dial in the cams on the dyno. Nothing helped. Going to give it another shot here soon. Timing is on. No boost leaks. Leakdown done by engine builder (trust his word) came back good

 

Cant you take your current pistons out and have them milled flat to the deck so that you can run a headgasket that is half as thick as that double gasket you are running?

I know its possible because we had to do this same thing in my friends ITR block running low comp Wiseco's

 

degree that thing! you said the block or watev was milled alot. your cams are retarded. (im tryin to think about this in my head, but your valve timing is off, so they're opening and closing at the wrong times, improper compression, etc; make sense?) donno whos building your motor, not tryin to be a dick, but idk anyone who doesn't degree cams when they're building a mod/race engine.

edit:addition>> just because you don't have aggressive cams doesn't mean you don't need to degree the motor. like i said, it was milled. and if its close to the max limit, cam to crank timing is way off. think about it. shorten distance from cam gear to crank gear. excess slack on the front of the timing belt. crank moves way ahead of the cams to take up that slack. need to degree them cams way ahead (thus they were retarded), to catch it back up to the crank. sounds like the issue to me.

 

He does not need to degree the cams IMO, since he is running OEM cams there is a much easier process involving the factory dowel holes in the cams and a set of adjustable cam gears, if he was having issues getting the car to 16deg base then I would say its a degree issue due to the clearances being out of wack but the more and more I think about it his compression probably has the biggest role in it... i just dont know how he ended up with such a low compression whoever ordered parts for that engine and just assembled it by guessing needs to give up if the compression ratio is at fault.

 

96 GSR-T: im lost with the factory dowel holes in the cams here? never heard of such a thing that deals with timing. also, you mentioned adjustable cam gears. degreeing the cams is the only reason why adjustable cam gears exist.

so i was bored in class today, and was thinkin about this. i drew this to help:



alright. so thats how an engine works, with the cams mediating the valve opening and the crank mediating the piston movement represented by the arrows.
so like i said, excessive milling, cams are retarded, crank is advanced.
so the crank is ahead in step one, the piston is already comin up with the intake valve being potentially open. decreasing the amount of air/fuel in the cylinder once the valve closes. decrease concentration, decreased pressure, decreased compression. less stuff in the cylinder when its sealed to produce less compression. so that explains compression and also a decreased power loss.
to accompany lower hp number, also after the exhaust phase, the piston is going back down, suckin in air. if the cams are behind, the exhaust valves could potentially be open, sucking back in exhaust gas and already combusted particles. so with decreased fresh air/fuel from the intake. plus this. equal even more power loss.

idk what do you think about that, sounds logical to me. but once again, completely lost with your response to degree the cams with some dowel holes and the adjustable gears are only designed because of degreeing cams.

^^^like am i missing something? b/c i've never heard of such a thing???

 

haas480 is right on the money. i had the same problem with my dart tall deck/eagle95mm crank and stock cams/gear. with the crank at tdc my cams would be advanced 8 degrees. i learned the hard way and now ill degree any motor i plan on boosting if its had any head or block surfacing. i purchased the mike belben kit for the b series and well worth the money spent.

 

exactly. http://www.xenocron.com/bseries-vtec...12c49d957f8365

to tell ya the truth, $300 is pocket change if you think about the kind of money we throw around on these setups. literally, pocket change...
its a double investment, put the cams where they're recommended for max performance, plus guarantee cam to crank timing is dead on.

but evaluate your setup and see if this is the issue. im dying to know. hah.
good luck and let us know if you solve anything

 

I've read all of this and I see a lot of valid points here... And I agree, degreeing the engine would surely be benificial, and I will look into that.. But here is my thing, A stock headgasket is .030" thick, now say the block was milled .045" , this would be .075", so then running the .075" headgasket, would basically just bring it back to stock deck height, by replacing that .045" of material that was removed from the block, with gasket material... So assuming this block was milled somewhere around .045" (because unfortunately I dont know how much it was actually milled), Everything should be back even, and the cam and crank timing should still be in sync...

 

Re-thought. revised. ok. so the pistons could be barely sticking out of the block if it was milled, which would then lead to the fix with the head gasket. so if everything was figured out correctly, you're back at stock height. what about the head, was that milled at all? prolly when cleaned up and had it built. so maybe you're just a bit off on the block still, and the head is milled some too. (which would support the cam retardedness hypothesis). but when ya put it in time, did both cam marks line up with each other at the same time the crank does?? when your head was built, who did it, valve seats redone?, pressure checked, etc? still thinking...(because timing retardedness still comes to mind with the whole power loss, etc.)