Mr Sik

I'm new to the Honda/Acura scene but have been a BMW tech for sometime now. I have a chance to buy a fairly clean low mileage CRX for almost nothing and was looking into swaps. It looks like the two choices are the ZC Dohc and the B series using a mount kit. I've been doing some homework and it looks that a turbo ZC would work but to do it right w/a built motor It would cost as much to just drop an ITR/CTR swap and have factory reliability with good power stock or with bolt ons. Anyone done either of these swaps and whats your opinion? Whats your set-up and would you change anything if you had a chance to do it over?

Mr Sik

funkmaster

your budget and goals would help us MK1 experts give you some advice.

How much money are you planning to spend on this project?

What are your goals for the car? Fun daily driver or a primary race car?

Mr Sik

Nah, this would be a fun car. I've always wanted an early CRX hell everyone had one in high school. I might use it for ocasional Auto X(prolly SM) and DE's. As for budget??? I've got about $7k to start and $5k yearly to add/play budgeted. I'm in no hurry so waiting for what I want isn't a big deal as I already have an Acura daily and 325ix weekender. I'd like a small, nimble, and strong running fun car. A sleeper so to say. Plain rapper with everything under the hood and in the chassis.

funkmaster

if youve got that kind of scratch to spend, id definitely go for the B swap. You can expect to spend at least $3000 to get it done, but IMO is worth it if you want a high amount of HP and have the car be reliable.

icebox187

with the itr swap you still need the cable tranny! i have a b16a1 with a y1 trans in mine, and if i was to do it all over from scratch, i'd buy the itr swap with jdm s80 lsd tranny and buy a seperate ys-1 tranny from the jy, and swap the gears and lsd from the s80 to the cable ys1 case... wiring on these cars is lots of fun btw especially if you didnt get the si model. also make sure you stay obd0 or obd1... and just going off of what endyn says about honda heads i would get the earliest type r model year you can... good luck!

onegvtec.com

MooseRex

Don't mind waiting??
7grand??
TECHNICIAN????

I vote for a K24. Go big. But if you did that it wouldn't be a track car heh, you'd be lucky to turn at all... Thing would be like LIGHTNING in a straight line though. I saw a guy in a mk2 make just under 11 seconds on the quarter mile with a swap like that and they're 300lbs heavier stock than our mk1 devils... or so I've heard.

As far as AutoX goes, I've heard bad things about the torsion bars in the front and the solid beam in the rear, wtf do I know though? My little Gen1 Rex is my rallycar

Mr Sik

Wow, hit 5 posts pretty fast. haha! I think K24 is a bit more fab work than I want to do unless there is someone offering a mount kit? I would prefer bolt in mounts for engine and trans. Reliability is the key. I don't want to spend a ton of dough and end up rebuilding it all the time. I've got a few more weeks before everything is set in stone. Keep the inputs coming. Thanks in advance.


Mr Sik

funkmaster

h or K series in a 1G is possible but is not a bolt in affair. My personal build will be a stock JDM ITR engine, with the usual bolt ons. Ill probably run a USDM Integra GSR cable trans.

Mr Sik

Yeah, that what I was thinking ITR/CTR with bolt ons should be plenty of power and fairly reliable. Will the hydro tranny not work? I've seen kits to make the hydraulics work are they not compatable with the 1st gen? They make it for the ef.

funkmaster

from what ive heard the hydro to cable conversion kits would work. the problem is the mount kits available do not support the hydro trans. The mount is different, so youd either have to modify one of the Hasport mounts or have one custom made.

The other problem is ive heard the case for the hydro trans is longer and requires some modification to the CRX's frame in order for it to fit.

One thing Ive heard that could work is taking the guts out of a hydro trans and installing into a cable trans case. Im not sure exactly how that works though since ive never done internal work on a transmission.

cbstd

I would contact Hasport first. They make the engine mounts and will have all the info you will need about the tranny situation.

This CRX you are buying, is it a Si model with fuel injection? If not you will need to add a pressurized fuel system to run FI.

D16A1, D16A8, B16, B18, K20 or K24, they are all good options with stock power rising as listed. You can build all of them to be very powerful and street reliable. I would avoid a homemade turbo, but I am goofy that way.

Check out http://www.redpepperacing.com, lots of good 1st Gen CRX info over there.

Scott

Top Ramen

Cable tranny is probably the way to go. Easier installation and the hydro conversion kits do not have the greatest reputation. I have heard complaints about them with long-term use. Besides, a b16 cable tranny with an LSD is very, very close to an ITR tranny in terms of gear-ratios. And, if you buy a full ITR or CTR swap, you can sell the tranny for more than it will cost you to get the cable tranny (maybe even enough left over for an OBX diff).

Another option is to get a complete cable b16 swap and an LS or B20 block and do an LS-VTEC. It won't rev quite as high as the R motors, but it is really easy and cost effective to get more power out of them. RS Machines makes cast pistons that are basically copies of the R pistons that will drop into an LS or B20 block and only cost about $150. With a b16 head and good cams, it is easy to get R motor hp with more torque.

Or, just drop in a b16 with good cams and nice bolt-ons. Which is "better" is a matter of personal preference.


Best of luck with your project.

StorminMatt

I may be somewhat biased about this. But I would just go with the ITR motor. A B20-VTEC will make more HP. But it is going to be nowhere near as hassle-free. With the ITR motor, you just basically drop it in and go. And unless there is something wrong with the motor you buy, it will give you YEARS of hassle-free service. Furthermore, the HP and torque levels that you will get out of even a stock ITR will be more thnan enough to make a 1G CRX faster than just about ANYTHING on the road. As for the transmission, your best bet is a cable B16A transmission. A JDM S1/J1 actually has identical ratios to the ITR transmission, but no LSD. If this is important, you can get a B16A YS1. However, ratios are a little shorter with this transmission than the S1/J1.

And as for the CRX itself, I don't know if you have a car in mind yet. But if you don't, I would go for an HF. Yes, most people here will tell you to go for the SI, since wiring will be easier and you don't have to worry about the fuel system mods. But it also weighs about 200 pounds more. This amounts to about a 12% difference in weight. And getting a 12% weight reduction is like getting an across the board 12% increase in HP and torque from your engine, which is not at all an easy feat. ESPECIALLY when it comes to increasing low end torque by 12%. For this reason, I feel that the extra effort involved with swapping into an HF is well worth it.

Mr Sik

Yep I do believe its and HF w/bad w/pump although I'm not too crazy about it being blue. The b series swap seems the way to go. I kinda like the B16B CTR motor though. There something about the 1.6l 185 hp and 9k rpms that makes me itch. Maybe add a JRSC and push 11psi through it on E85. Hasport and Innovative both make mount kits which ones are better or does it even matter? Innovative mounts are cheaper and made of steel instead on billet aluminum. YS1 LSD cable trans will make the swap a bolt in with mounts and a closer ratio gear set doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to a local JDM engine provider and take a look see at the motor and also see if I can buy it w/o the hydro trans.


Mr Sik

StorminMatt

I would personally prefer the ITR to the CTR. The fact is that the price is about the same on the two motors. But you get 15 more HP and 16 more ft-lb from the ITR vs the CTR. And while it IS true that the ITR doesn't quite have the rev capacity of the CTR, it's not like the ITR CAN'T sing a good song for you at above 8000RPM. Oh, and the ITR will respond better to mods. Now I guess that in the end, you are going to get what you want to get. And if you are going to boost, I can certainly see the advantages of going CTR rather than ITR. But for a reliable, allmotor street car with decent power and torque, I just think the ITR is WORLDS better than the CTR.

funkmaster

JRSC will not fit on the 1G CRX w/ b16 unless you relocate the brake MC.

I think the ITR is probably the best all around B-series engine ever, but the B16B would definitely be a close 2nd. So whatever you choose keep us updated with the project. If you really want help with the swap goto redpepperracing.com H-T is ok and all, but they just dont have as many ppl here that know about 1Gs.

Mr Sik

Bummer on the JRSC I was hoping to drop it in but no worky no prob. The B16b is definately what I'm going with at this time. I'm going here ain a couple of days and checking one out to see if it's "the one". As soon as I get all the parts sourced I'll post a build thread.

Thanks
Mr Sik

Top Ramen

Probably over-cammed, but nice build:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2277640

Notice how flat the torque curve is.

Mr Sik

Yea, Chemik is a local here in Dallas. That car is cleaner in person than it looks in pictures and fast as hell too boot.

Mr Sik

eL

F20C or go home

icebox187

dont forget, you are basically gonna rewire the whole car if its an hf... si is the way to go, if a little bit of weight is really that big of a deal you can shave the interior.... the wiring is a headache and you might as well start with the most advanced platform you can

rally25rs

i did a D16A1 swap into an 87 civic. Not saying that is the right swap to do, but if you are new to Hondas and looking for something fun and easy, then this is it. If you start with an Si CRX then a swap from a 86-87 integra is litterally a weekend job. almost no wiring or fabricating needed. i got a donor teg for like $300. The 88-89 tegs are a little wiring work. As already stated, if you have a carbed crx then you need to convert to FI too.

Also, if you are looking at putting $ into the car, I would consider suspension upgrades in addition to just a swap. For me, having a couple hundred dollar, to $1000 swap that makes the car run somewhere around low 15's in the 1/4 mile, then putting $ into the suspension to make it handle like a skateboard, is more fun for everyday street driving than making it purely smokin' fast in a straight line (but I drive a couple curvy park roads to work everyday, so cornering is a priority to me).


Modified by rally25rs at 11:27 AM 4/22/2008

over_

i say restore the HF. 1st gen Hf's are not easy to find, and super great on gas. Find an Si to molest.