ok ask me anything about under the hood i will know...but i do not know sound system stuff worth crap.....ok i am looking at buying some subs for my car...i found 2 12 inch 800 watt subs....what kind of amp am i gonna need for it?...i am looking for one with a bass controler....what is a capacitor?...and do i need one??...help i need any tips i can get on this....anything else i need??

 

Well if you have 2 800W subs you will need a 1600W amp, the question is is that 800W RMS or peak/max power.

Your first lesson in car audio...

1- Always deal in RMS watts, not peak or max or music power or anything else they want to call it to fudge the numbers.

2- All speakers will have a continuous power handling "RMS" rating and a max power handling rating, the one you need is the continuous power handling.

3- All amps will have a RMS rating and a peak or max rating, again deal only with RMS ratings.

4- You will want to match the total continuous power handling, [RMS] of the speakers to the amp you drive them with, the amp should be the same or even a little higher is better.

5- Car audio is all about the install, it does not matter how good the equipment is, if the install is poor so will the SQ, on the other hand, a properly installed "entry level" system can sound pretty good.

Class dismissed. 94

 

ok 2 questions....how much is "alittle more" when it comes to the amp?....and what does it mean when it says the amp has differant channels?...

 

An extra 10%-20% is what I do whenever possible.

EG; Say you have one 800W continuous sub, I would use a 1000W RMS amp to drive that sub, keep in mind you can drive the sub with a 100W RMS amp but not to the subs full potential and the chances of damaging the sub are far greater with the 100W amp then they are with the 1000W amp.

Lesson two...

There are two main reasons why speakers "blow" overpowering and under-powering, the phrase "overpowering is better then under-powering" means the chances of damaging a speaker in much higher if you under-power them then if you overpower them, reason is when under-powering a speaker you will tend to overdrive the underpowered amp into constant clipping, [distortion], when overpowering, that is much less likely to happen, [over driving the amp].

It is not the under-powered amp that blows the speaker, it's the distortion that blows the speaker, output from an amp is AC, when an amp clips the output is DC and the same thing happens to the speakers VC, [voice coil] as happens to a lighters heating coil when you push it in, the cars DC current heats it up to red hot, the diff. is the lighters coil is made to do that, the speakers coil is not.

Stereo sound has two channels, a left and right, a stereo amp will have two channels, [left and right] a 4ch amp has two sets of left and rights, because there is no stereo separation needed at low frequencies, [sub bass] a mono block, [1ch] amp or a 2ch amp that has been "bridged", [two channels joined together to make one channel] is used.
There are multi channel amps, [it includes 4ch amps] 5ch and 6ch amps.

Class dismissed. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well if you have 2 800W subs you will need a 1600W amp, the question is is that 800W RMS or peak/max power.

Your first lesson in car audio...

1- Always deal in RMS watts, not peak or max or music power or anything else they want to call it to fudge the numbers.

2- All speakers will have a continuous power handling "RMS" rating and a max power handling rating, the one you need is the continuous power handling.

3- All amps will have a RMS rating and a peak or max rating, again deal only with RMS ratings.

4- You will want to match the total continuous power handling, [RMS] of the speakers to the amp you drive them with, the amp should be the same or even a little higher is better.

5- Car audio is all about the install, it does not matter how good the equipment is, if the install is poor so will the SQ, on the other hand, a properly installed "entry level" system can sound pretty good.

Class dismissed. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh man...you need a few lessons also my friend...you can power your subs with a factory system if you know what you are doing...also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either...

have you noticed that when you just browse through amps and brands that one amp may have more wattage then another but costs less then another on with less wattage? WHY because of how they were built. the outputs are different inside of every amp...but since im talking to newbs here ill just say this...find a class D amp if you want to power subs. the more quality/loudness you want out of your system the more its going to cost...the bottomline here is pay more for the less amperage. YOU WILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE.

OH and the components you buy ARE REALLY IMPORTANT...i cant believe you said that they are not OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle ever wonder why kicker makes a square sub? there is a reason behind the design and here again you will pay more for better engineering...if you want reccomendations pm me. its very important to find a matching amp for your sub. you cant just slap any amp and sub together and thinks its going to be handy dandy...that isnt how it works

as far as your other questions dude...a capacitor or "cap" is to give the little extra power to your amp that the sub draws when the subs produces a lot of bass within a certain point in a song or whatever...this is to prevent the headlights from dimming and to give your system more power that the alternator in your car wasnt designed to handle...do some research on it dude...you will learn quickly...its pretty easy stuff...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oh man...you need a few lessons also my friend...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're REALLY barking up the wrong tree here, dude...

FCM has more experience than you have years in your meaningless life.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you can power your subs with a factory system if you know what you are doing...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then tell us, all knowing noob, how do you power subs with 5-8W rms?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes it is.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle</TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm, I don't care if you have the best sub on the market, if you feed it with a poor signal, then it'll sound like crap. Definitely not the most important piece, my friend...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ever wonder why kicker makes a square sub? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Because gimmicks like that appeal to people like yourself???

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is to prevent the headlights from dimming and to give your system more power that the alternator in your car wasnt designed to handle</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...do some research on it dude...you will learn quickly...its pretty easy stuff...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Kettle, I'd like to introduce you to Pot.

******* Newbs...

 

right this all shows how ignorant you are...people like you ruin the world and everything in it...you can tell it to the person with the college degree. oh wait you think you know even more? HAHAHA wait are you even out of middle school yet? ok ok so you listen to your friends and talk alot of **** here...wow your so smart, you cant even put in your own advice here...wow your so brilliant i wish i could be just like you or even you so i can find the highest building and kill myself so there is one less person like you around. thank you for showing how ignorant you are

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">right this all shows how ignorant you are...people like you ruin the world and everything in it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right. Because I'm the one spewing misinformation like verbal diharreah, acting like I'm God's gift & slinging insults...

And I'm the one trying to power a mobile video unit with a battery charger...

BTW, I've been installing since before you could even spell the word car, so I think I know a bit...

You never did answer my question on how you power subs with 5-8w out of a factory stereo...

 

HAHA

I'm sorry I had to laugh. I take B18's side on this argument.

Since I'm not keen on responding without at least making the post useful, my two cents to add with fcm.

Listen to your subs! Nothing like hearing what they're supposed to sound like. Keep in mind car and demo rooms are different, but at least you'll get a general idea of what it will be like sitting in your car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oh man...you need a few lessons also my friend...you can power your subs with a factory system if you know what you are doing...also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either...

have you noticed that when you just browse through amps and brands that one amp may have more wattage then another but costs less then another on with less wattage? WHY because of how they were built. the outputs are different inside of every amp...but since im talking to newbs here ill just say this...find a class D amp if you want to power subs. the more quality/loudness you want out of your system the more its going to cost...the bottomline here is pay more for the less amperage. YOU WILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE.

OH and the components you buy ARE REALLY IMPORTANT...i cant believe you said that they are not OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle ever wonder why kicker makes a square sub? there is a reason behind the design and here again you will pay more for better engineering...if you want reccomendations pm me. its very important to find a matching amp for your sub. you cant just slap any amp and sub together and thinks its going to be handy dandy...that isnt how it works

as far as your other questions dude...a capacitor or "cap" is to give the little extra power to your amp that the sub draws when the subs produces a lot of bass within a certain point in a song or whatever...this is to prevent the headlights from dimming and to give your system more power that the alternator in your car wasnt designed to handle...do some research on it dude...you will learn quickly...its pretty easy stuff...</TD></TR></TABLE>Brahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oh man...you need a few lessons also my friend...you can power your subs with a factory system if you know what you are doing...also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either...

have you noticed that when you just browse through amps and brands that one amp may have more wattage then another but costs less then another on with less wattage? WHY because of how they were built. the outputs are different inside of every amp...but since im talking to newbs here ill just say this...find a class D amp if you want to power subs. the more quality/loudness you want out of your system the more its going to cost...the bottomline here is pay more for the less amperage. YOU WILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE.

OH and the components you buy ARE REALLY IMPORTANT...i cant believe you said that they are not OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle ever wonder why kicker makes a square sub? there is a reason behind the design and here again you will pay more for better engineering...if you want reccomendations pm me. its very important to find a matching amp for your sub. you cant just slap any amp and sub together and thinks its going to be handy dandy...that isnt how it works

as far as your other questions dude...a capacitor or "cap" is to give the little extra power to your amp that the sub draws when the subs produces a lot of bass within a certain point in a song or whatever...this is to prevent the headlights from dimming and to give your system more power that the alternator in your car wasnt designed to handle...do some research on it dude...you will learn quickly...its pretty easy stuff...</TD></TR></TABLE>

you would think with all that typing there would be at least one piece of information. lots of misinformation though.

 

Well.....I usually hate to reply to these type of threads, but damn.....I just cant resist.

Yeah, I'm a noob.....here at H-T at least.

To get back to the original question of what amp to run with "800w" subs....here we go......

There are VERY FEW "real" 1000w amps out there. And if you are fortunate enough, or rich enough... to have one, you better have the charging system(not a battery charger either....lol) to make that power. That starts with a HO alternator, big honkin power and ground cables, and somtimes a cap. Caps' usefullness can be kind of subjective though. I've yet to hear a significant improvment from a cap, and for the money you can do much better things to improve sound(like a HO alt or better equipment).

You can run any speaker with any amp(with few exceptions, not applicable here). FCM is right on about underpowering speakers by clipping the amp sending DC to the speaks and overheating coils. The trick is not to clip the amp. I ran a pair of CV xl12s off a kenwood head for almost a year, never hurt the head or the speaks....i didnt abuse them, and knew not to expect the same level of performance as if I had a dedicated amp. That volume **** works wonders....(shows how old I am....lol)

Yeah...i know......What amp is right for your 800w subs??? Well are your subs grossly overrated like most of the crap on the market today? If they are, then a crappy 1000 watt amp is almost sure to send you back to the store soon to buy more crap, or you could break down and get some good quality stuff. Dont get anything from asia, though most of the "good" brands have sold out and are outsourcing most of their production there. JUNK.....

If it were me..... I'd look for amps made in the 90's, in the USA or Japan. Wattage isnt necessarily important.....look at the Orion 250HCCA....a whole 100watts, that will BLOW AWAY most any modern amp(and stock alternator). my 2cents.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You're right. Because I'm the one spewing misinformation like verbal diharreah, acting like I'm God's gift & slinging insults...

And I'm the one trying to power a mobile video unit with a battery charger...

BTW, I've been installing since before you could even spell the word car, so I think I know a bit...

You never did answer my question on how you power subs with 5-8w out of a factory stereo... </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea at circuit city right? with a highschool degree? congratulations...you know **** ill take my college class information before your misinformation and ignorance

oh and an answer? how do you power regular speaker? how do some other vehicles that have factory subs get power? hmm i dont know think about...you must be smart enough by all the **** that you say

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know **** ill take my college class information before your misinformation and ignorance</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's becoming more and more obvious with every post you make that your college education is money wasted...

It's apparent that you're living in a fantasy world, actually believing that the drivel you post is correct.

You should go back to the Civic/Del Sol forum where trolls such as yourself like to hang out...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and an answer? how do you power regular speaker? how do some other vehicles that have factory subs get power? hmm i dont know think about...you must be smart enough by all the **** that you say</TD></TR></TABLE>LMAO, got your foot in your mouth and can't get it out?
I am also waiting for an answer on "you can power your subs with a factory system" I want to know how you power two 12" 800W subs with any factory system?

While your figuring your way out of that one, explain to me how my first statement about subs and wattage is wrong, "...also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either", I said "Well if you have 2 800W subs you will need a 1600W amp, the question is that 800W RMS or peak/max power?"
Come on college boy, spit it out, no fudging like you did with the question about driving the subs with a stock system, just tell me how the statement is wrong.

Now to this dumb *** remark, "OH and the components you buy ARE REALLY IMPORTANT...i cant believe you said that they are not OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle first off I never said that the subs where not important, what I said was, Car audio is all about the install, it does not matter how good the equipment is, if the install is poor so will the SQ, on the other hand, a properly installed "entry level" system can sound pretty good. read the whole thing this time.
Also, I don't care how good the speakers are, components or subs, if the install is crappy then the SQ will be crappy.

As for your collage degree, go get your money back, because they missed the boat with you.

I have been installing car audio for more the 30 years, and now instruct new installers, I gotta tell you I have high school kids that know more about car audio then you do, so I agree with B18C_EJ8 take your no0b *** back to where it came from so we don't have to correct your misinformation any more. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have been installing car audio for more the 30 years, and now instruct new installers, I gotta tell you I have high school kids that know more about car audio then you do, so I agree with B18C_EJ8 take your no0b *** back to where it came from so we don't have to correct your misinformation any more. 94
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

94

 

What's your budget and what kind of goals do you have for your system? Are you out for SPL or sound quality??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's your budget and what kind of goals do you have for your system? Are you out for SPL or sound quality?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

ok the budget i am trying to keep under 400....as for sound quality...i want it to sound good...but at the same time i want alot of bass....not to the point were the windows shatter and break...but just alot of bass...

 

This $400 is inclusive of subs, amp, box, wiring and install???

What are you using for source equipment? Factory or aftermarket deck?

 

deck?...as in head unit....i got an aftermarket head unit....and i have the subs i want in mind....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oh man...you need a few lessons also my friend...you can power your subs with a factory system if you know what you are doing...also your first statement about the subs and wattage is not true either...

have you noticed that when you just browse through amps and brands that one amp may have more wattage then another but costs less then another on with less wattage? WHY because of how they were built. the outputs are different inside of every amp...but since im talking to newbs here ill just say this...find a class D amp if you want to power subs. the more quality/loudness you want out of your system the more its going to cost...the bottomline here is pay more for the less amperage. YOU WILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE.

OH and the components you buy ARE REALLY IMPORTANT...i cant believe you said that they are not OMG the speaker or in this case the SUB is the most important piece of the puzzle ever wonder why kicker makes a square sub? there is a reason behind the design and here again you will pay more for better engineering...if you want reccomendations pm me. its very important to find a matching amp for your sub. you cant just slap any amp and sub together and thinks its going to be handy dandy...that isnt how it works

as far as your other questions dude...a capacitor or "cap" is to give the little extra power to your amp that the sub draws when the subs produces a lot of bass within a certain point in a song or whatever...this is to prevent the headlights from dimming and to give your system more power that the alternator in your car wasnt designed to handle...do some research on it dude...you will learn quickly...its pretty easy stuff...</TD></TR></TABLE>
honestly for this post I think you should be banned from this forum.
FCM is one of the most knowledgable people in this forum, him and I have butted heads in the past but I know the man knows his stuff. Everything he said was correct and I think you didnt read it well enough.
Also what you said about capacitors isnt an appropriate description of what they do. A cap minimizes voltage fluctuation that the amp sees which maximizes its output efficiency.
You called someone who has 3 decades of experience in car audio a noob, while you yourself cant have more than 5 years based on your age (although I am sure you will BS this point.)
Please dont come in this forum and spread BS, this is how people get confused, the car audio peeps who frequent this forum do a good job of helping people, and all you have done is waste our time.

 

people who have 30+ years of experience shouldnt be in this forum. you have no life and definately need to move on. well good job everyone knows how to read labels and knows how to install things well thats great more power to you, but thats all your ever know, you knowledge is limited, anything beyond an install and reading the bullshit that manufacturers print on their **** is all the knowledge you will ever gain. in the little 5 years of experience with car audio and many other car related things that ive learned is filled with more gained information that EJgay and FCM can know 20 years. so i really appreciate everyone trying to flame me and twist my words around but hey thats ok winning an online argument is like running a race in the special olympics...you might have won but your still a retard. so congratulations to the 50 year old people still hanging around a forum such as this and working at a place that doesnt even require a highschool degree. i hope you paying rent, having fun maxing out your credit cards and living paycheck to paycheck. people that and the false information you leave on here is all you are ever good for.

p.s. let me know when life becomes harder or even easier, maybe ill throw you $20 or something for all your trouble

 

I'll take the $20 punk.....you gotta hand deliver it though......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">people who have 30+ years of experience shouldnt be in this forum. </TD></TR></TABLE>
why not? because they can prove that you have no idea what you are talking about? Remember you are the one that started this. I have a bachelors degree and I still work in a car audio shop. I do it because I love it, and because I love it I have amassed a large ammount of knowledge on the subject. Who cares why someone is in this field, what matters on an internet forum is who can be the most helpful and so far you are losing this race.

To the OP, if $400 is you budget for amp, subs, box, wiring, and installation it isnt realistic. $700-800 is more realistic.