I have just replaced the deck in my car, and have started to notice that the previous owner most likely just played the old Blaupunkt deck in there on max reguardless of distortion. In short, the front speakers are blown, not completely, but enough to make listening to music not as good as it could be. My question: I have a 98 Civic EX with factory sail panel tweeters. If I buy a set of these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Q...B6500

Could I put the new tweeters in the factory location? If so, how much modification is needed? I am going for as clean a look as possible.

Second question:

If I was to replace the 6x9's in the rear, can I put in something Crutchfield says won't fit?

For instance, I want to put in these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Q...DB690

Crutchfield says they don't fit. I assume this is because the magnet doesn't clear the trunk arms. However, best buy says they do fit. They obviously haven't done the research that crutchfield has. What do I have to do to make them fit?

Last question: If i do amp the 4 speakers in the car, would splicing into the factory wiring to save my self the trouble of running new wires be stupid? A yes or no will suffice

thanks in advance

 

Those components should fit in the factory locations... However, some modification to the door panel might be necessary to get the woofers to fit (cutting out the basket that the factory speaker sits in). You also may have to enlarge the tweeter holes.

If you pick a pair of speakers for the rear that are too deep, then they will not fit unless you cut the trunk springs, or make spacers to bump them up a bit. However, with the latter option, you probably won't be able to put the rear deck (if it's a coupe) back on or the speaker grilles...

And yes, if you amp the four speakers, you can indeed reuse the factory wires. It's done all the time... Running a bundle of four wires from the trunk to behind the radio is far easier than running a set to each speaker... Especially if you go into the doors...

 

kickass.....15 minutes!

Either way, thank you for the help.

I knew I would have had to cut the basket some. How would I go about enlarging the tweeter holes?

So I guess that it would be worth the $160 (over like $90 for the polks) to get the Alpine Type-R's that crutchfield says will fit then? I mean, I was just hoping to get at the old speakers, lay some dynamat, screw the new rears in, hook up the harness and be gone.

Also, as for running amp wires, should I just run them to the dash, depin the factory speaker wires and splice in? Or cut the wire from the harness a little farther back so I can reattach the factory wiring?


Thanks in advance.

 

The Polks are a direct fit, [mid] even use the same speaker mounting holes, no mods should be needed, some mods, [mounting] will be needed for the tweeters.

You definitely need an amp to drive them properly, 2x100W-125W RMS, you could use the stock speaker wire, you don't even need to run any wiring, connect the front and rears together behind the HU and connect the amps front speaker outputs to the rear speaker leads, [now connected to the front speakers] and connect the amps rear speaker outputs directly to the rear speakers, however, the stock speaker wire is pretty light gauge, and I wouldn't use them for anything over 25W RMS.
For much better SQ, run 16ga speaker wire into the door, mount the x-over in the door. [inside of vapor barrier].

If you want to run rear speakers, find a set of mid-range/mid-bass drivers, no tweeters or disable the tweeters on a 2/3way, wire the rear speakers in series and connect them to the bridged rear 2 channels of a 4ch amp.

The Alpine Type R speakers will not fit, [without mods] they are over-sized 6.5" speakers, unlike the Polk that are a standard 6.5".

There are more the a few 6x9 speakers that do not fit the stock locations and not all are because of depth, some are because the oval mounting hole is the car is not the same shape as the speakers, so the hole has to be "modified" if the speaker is not too "tall" a spacer/adapter can be made with 1/4"-1/2" MDF and laminated over the stock opening, also a good way to improve SQ, [bass response] from the 6x9s.

If your looking for a plug and play kind of install, an amped system is not for you, and replacing the rear speakers in a 98 Civic coupe is definitely not plug and play. 94

 

I think the rear deck in the 98 civic coupe has 6.5in speakers by default so those polks should fit in the rear.
And yes almost any 6.5 in the front doors will require cutting of the factory basket or making your own MDF spacers; the factory honda drivers are quite shallow.

Clarification, you want to use the polks in the fron or the rear? Rear fill isn't as important as the front, spend more on the fronts, get a decent 2ch amp for the fronts, run rear-fill from HU, and deaden the front doors well.

 

a 99 Civic coupe has 6x9s in the rear, and standard 6.5" in the doors, the Polk is a standard 6.5" speaker with a 5" mounting hole diameter and a 2" mounting depth, same as the stock speaker.
There are more then a few 6.5" speakers that will fit without mods in the stock door speaker housings, from Eclipse, Pioneer, Infinity, Polk and others. 94

 

Okay, having typed out a nice long response, and for some reason firefox decided I wasn't logged in, I lost all of it. Stupid Quick reply...

Anyways.....

Polk 6.5 inch components up front.

By Alpine Type-R's I meant these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3...PR69C
One of the four 6x9's that fit.

If I do amp them, it will def be more than 25w rms, my hu does that..... So It appears I am running new wires if that happens.

If you could point me to some resources as to running those wires (so I can't see them, but more importantly, a thief can't either).

@Chrisw85: The rears from the factory are 6x9's, because they are ovals, not circles, so they can't be 6.5's. Actually that's why I want 6x9's back there. The factory ones do have some bump off the headunit.

This is all going to be done in stages, because I just don't make enough to do it all at once. I also want another computer as well......
Stage 0: Car, I need it, I have it.
Stage 1: new deck (CHECK)
Stage 1.5: CD-iB100 (CHECK)
stage 2: Front components
Stage 3: Rear 6x9's
Stage 4: amp'd!
Stage if-I-have-to(really-don't-want-to): Dual tens, in sealed and ported boxes.

 

OIC, 6x9 Type Rs, sorry, have not tried the Type Rs in the rear so am not sure they are an exact fit, however they have very little hight so an MDF adapter plate would work, and if you want to go without subs then spend the time and effort on the speaker install, a proper speaker install will result in better bass response, and all around better SQ.

Speaker mounting rules...

1- Speaker must be mounted to a flat surface

2- Speaker must have an airtight seal all the way around for as far from the speakers edge as possible, at least the speakers diameter.

3- The more mass, [solid baffle] the speaker is mounted to the better.

4- A speaker mounted to wood will always sound better then that same speaker mounted to any other material, particularly sheet metal and plastic.

As for the speaker wiring, I would run them with the RCA leads up the center of the car to behind the HU, then to the left and right into the doors, and long enough to reach the back of the doors, a good spot for the x-overs is under the arm rest.
Getting the speaker wires into the door is a bit of a pain, but only because it is time consuming, I have seen a couple DIY write ups W/pix of how to do it in Honda/Acuras, not sure where, a search here or a Google search should get you something.

Nothing wrong with doing things in stages, keep in mind that the front speakers will be under-powered with just the HU driving them so don't end up doing what the last owner did, drive the HU into constant clipping and damage your new Polks.

No subs, no problem...
I run an Alpine HU, [CDA-7893] and 4 Eclipse 6.5" 2ways, [tweeters disabled on the rears] installed in my 94LS to demo what can be done without subs and off board amps.
A lot of time and effort was put into installing the speakers, all the wiring is stock except for the 12ga batt. lead for the HUs constant power and about a foot of 16ga speaker wire in the custom MDF and fiberglass cabinets for the rear speakers, the front stock plastic speaker housings were also replaced with custom MDF ones, even though the Eclipse 6.5" were a direct fit, extensive Dynamating was done in the doors but only a little was done in the rear.
It works very well, I have been accused, more then a few times, of having a hidden amp and sub. 94



Modified by fcm at 7:19 AM 8/11/2007

 

So you are saying that I need some kind of weather stripping between the speaker and the mounting points (to keep it air tight)? This also means I should buy replacement baffles (from crutchfield), possibly the "slim" ones when I buy my speakers?

It also appears to me that there is a black plug going into the door, but to find it, I had to have the door wide open and look from the top down. Am I gonna have to find an open pin in there and try to drill it out and shove speaker wires into it?

Would it be smarter to spend the couple of buck when it comes to amp time to have someone who knows what they are doing install it?

As for the front speakers, the wiring harness appears to have 4 wires in it, rather than 2. So I assume that the extra two wires go from the harness back out to the tweeters. Could I depin the tweeter wires, hook them to the high level out, and then the harness to the input in the crossover and just run another wire to the woofer (for the the time being)?

 

Some kind of gasket is a good idea, Dynamat works real well.

If you want to replace the plastic door speaker housings, you will have to make them, or have them made, replacing the plastic housing with just an MDF depth reducer/ring is not going to cut it, the plastic housing will work better.

There is a plug, [male and female] "clipped" to the "A" pillar, you can "peel" off the rubber boot, press in on the locking clip(s) and unplug the door harness from the dash harness plug, that stays "clipped" to the pillar.

If you are not comfortable doing your own amp install, pay someone to do it. 94

 

As for the amp install, I can do the wiring, the power bit might be the most challenging, mostly because I don't know how to get the molding up to get under the carpet. The only other problem I can forsee is just running the wiring into the doors, and into the rear deck without showing.

It's a long shot, but, if I cut the factory wire at the harness, and tape it to the new wire, can I just pull from the harness (for the rears) and just have the new wire end up where the factory one was? Or are there clips and things that would prevent that?

 

The sill trim/rocker panel trim is held in with clips, they will "pop" off if you lift up on the trim.

We all wish wiring could be that easy, unfortunately you are correct, there are clips and things preventing it. 94

 

to be honest I wouldn't even worry about rear speakers. I can't remember who told me this but when you're at a concert or symphony or <x> the sound comes from the front rather than the rear. Yes, there are reflections but this is partially the reason so much design goes into concert halls. kinda reminds me of the comment back in the 80's from the holdaway brothers in the context of center channel speakers....it's stereo! not trereo!

What I would do is take the money you'd spend on rear speakers and put that $$$ to a headunit with time-alignment or something like the Alpine h700 which gives you same capability. I was shocked when I set a small delay on driver's side door.....my entire soundstage was thrown to my hood rather than the driver-side speakers dominating. It makes a world of difference....

 

Luckily, I am a musician and understand this (and not one of those douchebaggy ones who think because they can play "sweet home alabama" they are musicians). That being said....The reason I was some good 6x9's is for bass. Not car-rattling-cow-tipping bass, but enough to fill out the sound stage, and stop the muddiness coming from the back seat. I do not want subs, I really don't. Also, being a musician, my ears are a little better at listening than yours (most likely), and I can hear distortion the second it happens and it sucks. In fact, distortion and clashing (the bad kind, not the intentional kind) makes most good musicians flinch (at least). Yeah, that's why I am not investing $300 in 6x9's. $150 is the most I'd ever spend. Thanks for the comment though!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jeffzoom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Thanks for the comment though!</TD></TR></TABLE>

ummmm, sure...anytime. glad i could help out. having the ability to rattle one's car though is not a function of how much power you have or speaker size but rather what you do with your volume control.

the one thing I did after my last install was get the IASCA test CD and you might find it interesting as well to see just how accurate your soundstage is....there's a track called 7 drums or something along those lines. i would assume when originally recorded 7 drums were positioned in a semi-circle and with a proper install you'll be able to pick out the location of each drum.

it'll be a little different though if your left pathlength from speaker to ear is 2 feet or so but your pathlength from right speakers borders on 4-5 feet..depends on install and car. i guess whenever I do go to concerts or symphonies I generally try to avoid sitting toward the far right or far left and try to get there early or buy tiks in seats that are in the middle of the hall/ampitheatre/etc. as possible. i think this is partially the reason sound boards at live concerts are located in the middle rather than off in some corner, behind the stage, etc.

in terms of a trained ear i'm not going to get in a pissing match but I took piano lessons for 10 years as a kid, played in recitals and took theory tests each year.....someone plays a note and you have to pick out the key while standing behind the piano. after a few years of that i became fairly good at picking out what key was being played.

built my first set of home speakers when I was 13 and was a regular attendee of the CAN events in houston....not that the latter has anything to do with a trained ear but nevertheless music is something that i really enjoy and want to listen with the best sound i'm able to attain. i've gone through 4 systems in the past 15 years and have upgraded each time once my income has changed from college salary to what I do now. didn't have 3 jobs in college while getting a CS degree cause I love work.....i did it to fund a car and a stereo. I don't have 1k CDs and who knows how many MP3's cause this is a random hobby.

but you're a musician so you already know all this.


Modified by thekid03 at 4:28 PM 8/13/2007


Modified by thekid03 at 4:30 PM 8/13/2007