00Red_SiR

Absolutely.

Professor15

gotcha. i figured you spent more than what you posted hence why i asked.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

If you spend a bit more money in the right spots, I find that you still come out about the same, give or take a couple hundred bucks depending upon what you're trying to do. I mean, many of us old heads don't look at it from a power per dollar perspective that the younger generation (born in 86+) just isn't used to understanding. ("If it don't make a lot of power, what's the point"? --sort of thinking) We try to do it in a way that gives a combination of power, comfort, and reusability, because that's all we could do in the late 90's - early 00's. So spending a couple bucks more in a few places is something I guess us old geezers are used to. We kinda don't say "well this may not be what I want, but its cheaper". We say. "If it isn't what I want, screw it, I'll wait until I can get it... But I want it THIS way."
(Have you seen what the V8 guys pay in comparison to us? Its ridiculous.. they are SOOOO Cheap. We pay for 4 pistons what they get for 8)


You young guys today have it GREAT!!! Ebay companies, RS Machine, CP, JE, SRP, with a plethora of choices from a ton of other acrynoms. Not to mention the competative pricing on Honda parts and specialty machine shops that do only Hondas and the like (Laskey Racing, RLZ, DonF, Alainz,etc). While we grew up on the Skunkworks,com, Inlinefour, JDMSH!T.com, Endyn, and Japanese Honda Parts.com (Now JHPUSA) and had to beg for machine shops to invest in parts that were more inline with bikes than actual cars (at least to them). Most of them told us to take a walk, so I'm happy as hell now.
But, us old dudes (Old in the realm of the Honda aftermarket) at the same time are stubborn, So, we get OEM, or Full aftermarket forged. none of that "in between" stuff. (Trust me, when planning this build, I considered RS Machines.. then the little hairs on the back of my neck said.... "nah, get what you KNOW works."

In IL and MI we have a TON of machine shops that work on stuff all the time, so machining really is a fun privilege that we don't get very often with those guys. So the fact that they were willing to do great work on even Honduhss is a rare opportunity.

We're just of a different philosophy of thinking is all. ;-) (We've had this discussion before)

Professor15

LOL yea im more than sure we've had a similar conversation. The philosophy is different, but the pursuit of the final outcome is the same and that is to create a solid build. I agree that there is a lot more companies and machine shops that offer great parts that you OG's didn't have before. None the less, its still humbling to hear you guys stories and see that you guys stick with the methods that you guys know best.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I raise my beer mug to you....

kingofbattle909

iTrader: (6)

Thank You "TheShodan" for the useful information. I will be watching this build for more. :thumbs up:

N/A

Most expect a solid build. Unfortunatly the majority expect it from cornercut/hacked builds and then looks for a scape goat to blame the fail on

Biggest thing the newer (my) generation lacks is the ability to admit fault and learn from our mistakes. We are living in a closed minded society and unfortunatly everything, even the honda building scene lol, is effected by it

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That is a very, very precise observation. I've also noticed that the level of patience to get the things done has dropped down significantly in our e-bay, starbucks, iPad, Amazon, instant-gratification society.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

5.14.11 *Update*

Block was Machine Grey painted and Autowerks team is now working on engine assembly.

Thanks to Tonio and his instructional video to show everyone, The head is first being worked on with a slight mill (.004") and then begin the arduous process of degreeing the camshafts properly.

We have to, of course, lock the VTEC rocker so the correct cam lobe can be degreed in.

For those that need to know the Skunk2 Pro 1 settings and protocols for the valvetrain, see below.

http://www.skunk2.com/installation/305-05-5140.pdf

According to Brian, When degreeing the cams Valvelash needs to be at OEM specifications.

Pro Series Springs:

60lbs closed seat pressure

Install Height - 1 inch @ 320
210 lbs pressure Open @ .5 inch lift

Coil bind - Height 720 @ 600 Lift

1998GsRIntegra

So could you explain the process and purpose of what tonio did in that video. Forgive my stupidity.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The process is in the video narrative. (Just listen carefully). The purpose is to ensure that the VTEC cam lobe is engaged while the degree wheels are being used to properly "dial in" the camshafts properly. What one has to do for those that plan to use VTEC is to dial in as though VTEC were already engaged. The video shows him using air pressure to engage the VTEC solenoid (normally activiated) by oil pressure, so that the third cam locks in and can't be moved. Only then will he use dialing guages to make sure the camshafts are properly degreed.

1998GsRIntegra

Thanks

Jdm Dina

The Shodan Rules! Helped me with questions on my engine build!!!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

*Small Update*

ARP Head studs and main studs are in!! So is the Headgasket... I'll get pictures of the assembled block as soon as they come up. I'm updating the list now. on Page 1. I'll let you all know when the fun begins.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

*UPDATE*

Engine has now been assembled. Excuse a couple of smudges, gloves weren't changed, but everything will be cleaned up accordingly.





Looks like the thing left to do is to address the head a bit more. As we were disassembling the head and taking out the valves, we noticed how OLD this head was. Remember, not only did Ron have this B16A swap into the Ferio since 2000, but it was this very B16A that was in japan for over 70K before he even bought it. So we figure this head has seen an easy 230K of abuse over 10 years. The valves had so much carbon and corrosion that a lot of it was fused to the actual valve stem. It was to a point that replacements were in serious order.

Thanks to our machine shop he was able to get us a great deal on some Ferrea valves. (This was done while we had the head washed, cleaned and resurfaced for a better seal) They aren't Nitrite treated, they'll do. Normally, we would go oversized and do a 3 angle valve job, but its just not in the budget. We'll get the new valves and "lap" them so that they seal properly. We had thought ahead and replaced the valve stem seals.

tempsohc

So your going to stick with the OEM factory valvejob and just lap the valves into it? hmmm is there any reasons to avoid doing what you are doing? Or is it fine doing it like this. I've always wondered if valvejobs where needed with new valves. and how can you tell?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well, there are some proper ways to lap stock valve sizes into the original head. I personally would go for the 3 angle valve job, and I'm trying to convince him otherwise, but now the budget is getting really out of control. So We'll see what the builder says this week after the head has been cleaned and milled.

I haven't seen any cons to doing this unless it was on a fresh valve job. It does need lapping compound, and we have to make sure that none gets on the valve stem itself. this is used to seat and ensure it closes properly.


Check here:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/easier-way-lap-valves-2866190/page2/#post44142594

I believe in the full valve job, but I'll let others give their input

tempsohc

so the valves to seal unless without a valvejob. thanks for taking the time.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

7.8.2011 Update

Welp, after long discussion, we decided to listen to the machine shop's recommendation and have the new valves angled to fit. A small "valvejob" as the term would be. I just didn't like the possibility that the valve wouldn't seat exactly after lapping, as the cylinder head easily has over 200K on it using the original OEM valves. Over time, with THAT much mileage, I just wasn't convinced that the lapping job would suffice, and wasn't willing to remove the head again to fix something that we knew could be solved now. Luckily, since we got a great discount on the valves from the machine shop, they only charged us minimally to do the valve job. That convinced all of us to go ahead with the proper way to do it. ( I try as much as possible to practice what I preach)

tepid1

Cool project homie!

Good luck

J-MANNN

This build is absolutely beautiful. I wanted to know since you choose a B18B Block -211.84mm, And LS Rods with Forged Pistons, would you ever want to install an oil squirter kit? If you had chosen OEM cast pistons that have the correct compression for your application, would you have chosen to install an oil squirter kit? The video you showed about semi-floating wrist pins being headed up and installed onto the con rods, does that install method not apply to fully floating wrist pins if you had chosen forged rods?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Long time no hear!!!/Seee!! If you only knew the creations I'm making now in the turbo world.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No. not even remotely. The oil squirters are used as an additional lubricating measure for OEM pistons in VTEC engines. In fact, with my GS-R block and B20 Crank, using forged pistons, I eliminated the oil squirters because the additional stroke caused some serious undue vibration since the piston skirt actually knocked against it. My cylinder walls were highly scored (And yes, they were bent properly and tested only by hand rotation to see if they cleared)

Search google under "Project EM1 The Shodan goes N/A", you'll see the reasoning behind it.

Possibly, but only if it were in a VTEC block. For a true LS /VTEC that does not have oil squirters in the LS or B20, I would not attempt to create any oil squirters. I would have left the block alone. Again oil squirters are an additional measure of lubrication; not a requirement.


Correct. The full floating pin in a forged rod should install right in, if not, the rod bushing may need to be slightly bored in order for it to fit properly. This has happened on ocassion with a forged rod.

tepid1

I thought you had me on speed dial?!?! haha

We need to talk, but first I need to save some money. I can't afford to talk to you.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Awww... I'm not like that now. How have things been? I thought you would have been on a Professional circuit by now!!!

I hope things are well, and that things are going well for you. Give me a call at the lab sometime. Pete gives his regards.