cyber gook

^^^ Yea dude, Mase mentioned that the DD reads low compaired to the dyno jets of this world. Apparently the DD is more accurate though, in terms of it being a true figure...

Anyway numbers dont bother me too much. What does is picking the mid range up. A guy at the dyno day had pretty much identical set up apart from Jun spec 4 cams, whales ***** and different back box. We maxed the same figures but his mid range was between 10-15 bhp up in the 5-7000 rpm regions.

Ignition maps were redone at the last tune update, there spot on perfect now.

gsrob

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cyber **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ Interesting comments as most have been pretty impressed with this power. I myself like you was expecting 210 ish plus with this et up...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think I would have been expecting more around 210whp as well. As many have said though, the dyno could just read that much lower...I guess really the only way to tell if that were the case would be to dyno it on a dyno jet for a pass or two. You could always add a new TB and port match the intake manifold to it and the head since you say it's been ported/polished as well. Also, what injectors are you running? If they are stock ones aren't they close to or already maxed out? Let me know, I'm interested to see if something is holding you bad in terms of a little more power or if it just the dyno you are using. Really clean looking car and motor!

cyber gook

^^^Thanks for your imput dude. I guess running a few passes on a DJ would make sense to see how the peak numbers differ. Like I mentioned before though, peak numbers dont really bother me too much, I just wanna work out whats holding me back in the mid range.

I'm running a set of RC's 370 Injectors but with a stock fuel pump. I was told this would be fine. Do you think it worth uprating to a Walbro 255? As far as I'm aware the fuellings not an issue though...

If I were to skim the head to raise compression slightly, how could I see this affecting things? The motor was clayed on build up and even +/- 15 degrees there were no P2V issues. Toda recon that with the stock Honda head gasket though, these pistons are gonna give me a 12.4:1 compression anyway...

I was thinking Of port matching 70mm skunk2 TB to a Pro intake manifold. Is it worth the bucks over my standard set up? To improve mid range that is... Also a few people have been saying the muffler sucks???

TODAwhore

The stock fuel pump is fine...i still have the stock cx fuel pump in my car with 370 also.
only thing diff on your car and ours is we run the Power FC....but what cat-back are you running?

paulITR

Taking apart the numbers midrange is weak.
Who ported the head and did the valve and seat cut?
Often when the midrange doesn't respond to different cam gears setting the bowls were opened too much.
Try to play with different intake tube lenght to see if you'll gain something.

cyber gook

Interesting comments again... The cat back is a modified Tanabee Racing medallion coupled to complete straight through 2.25'' pipework. Where the straight through pipe meets the collector its 2.5'' then tapers immediately after into the 2.25 mentioned. I was told that 2.5'' all the way back from collector to backbox would be unbeneficial...

The seats were cut by a leading motorsports company who mainly deal with GP bikes and exotic race cars. The porting was home made, but only gasket matching and slight smoothing/flash removal. Notion at all major. Intake side was finished to a 400 grit satin finish while exhaust was full polished.

TBH its funny you should mention that. I would love to run the same set up back to back, but just swap for a stock ITR head to see if my diy is letting me down.

food for thought...

4g hatch

is the exhaust crush bent or mandrel bent. the 2.5 collector isnt really doing you any good cause its being bottle necked. i think if you switch to a good mandrel 2.5 would help

cyber gook

The system is a Tanabee mandrel bent 2.25 straight through. It was simply opened out at the collector end to 2.5'' and a 2.5'' flange from a JDM CTR was welded on. It all looks neat enough and fits nicely.

4g hatch

i dont have any experience with switching from 2.25 to 2.5 so i dont wanna get flamed,but i think that the toda b's are a great, beefy, cam and anything you can do to help them breath more will net good results. i think you could pick up some mid and top end. maybe some one with more experience will chime in. i did have a friend run them in his teg on a stock 97 itr with stock 97spec r cast manifold and stock gsr exhaust he dynoed at 183hp. inline told him the exhaust was killing him.

cyber gook

Appreciate you comments ma man. I know theres something wrong in the set up though. Its there and its bugging me. I was just reading a guys post with similar set up, tuned by mase also, and he's putting down 225whp with masses more mid range to me. Same compression ratio, different cams (Jun 3's) both tuned by mase o DynoDynamics with S200??? Now that made me cry...

4g hatch

your bored like me
the jun 3's rip on top end but some say they lag a little in the midrange. the b's make good #'s on top but are better in tha mid. any way i still think you should be at 200 on any dyno allthough i know they read different.
pm b19coupe and see if you can get him in this conversation. he's done tons of dyno tunning with different cams,intakes,headers, and is familiar with the toda stuff

4g hatch

also i love your car. thats a clean engine bay and the yellow just makes it pop

i wish i could figure out how to do a avatar,damn comuters

cyber gook

Cheers, I will seee if I can scope that guy out. Avatars are easy mang...if you have trouble, email me the pic you want making to an avatar.

benson03

Good numbers from a B18c!

LSracing94

so this tune was on 99 octane?
what are your compression numbers around?
numbers seem too low to me.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

I might try the Performer X IM for a better midrange, the ported R manifold might have been opened up a bit too much. Don't change your cams, your numbers are great...IF the DD dyno "reads low."

neophyte210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cyber **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Appreciate you comments ma man. I know theres something wrong in the set up though. Its there and its bugging me. I was just reading a guys post with similar set up, tuned by mase also, and he's putting down 225whp with masses more mid range to me. Same compression ratio, different cams (Jun 3's) both tuned by mase o DynoDynamics with S200??? Now that made me cry... </TD></TR></TABLE>

first off sorry to make you cry man ,,,, like they said before the jun3's are a very peaky cam ..... this is my setup https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2191524

for you to make more power what i would reccomed would be a
1........2.36 or 2.5 exhaust(its damn close)
2........either get a performerX mani and port match or port match your ITR
3........get an autozone 3inch short ram for 40bucks and a velocity stack

chris1741

The numbers are low for the setup. A b16a w/ rmf header, an exhaust, and everything else stock made 150 whp on the same dyno, same day, correct??

I would do a compression check. If that checks out ok maybe the head porting wasnt the best and is hurting the setup.

cyber gook

Compression checks out absolutely fine. I'm looking at 260 psi / 18 bar across the board.

I dont really see how the port could be hurting it too much either, as it was very mild. But Its definatly got me thinking. All the comments made so far seem to make some amount of sense.

Guess it might be time to look for a stock ITR head...performer X...70mm throttle body and 3'' intake with velocity stack...Then retune when Mase is back over here in March time...

Thats unless anyone else has any other comments to make on the set up...

gsrob

So how's the car feel on the road since it was tuned? Is there a pretty big difference from before? I was looking over your setup again and it just seems like you should have 200whp based on the mods. I guess you won't know until March but hopefully something gets figured out in between now and then.

cyber gook

Yea dude the car feels awesome and kicks *** up until 4 gear but thats where the lack of mid range causes it to suffer.

0-60's laid down in between 5.5-5.8 seconds according to the gtech meter. And flat out so far were hitting 150mph at 8,200 rpm, but road ran out and so did the speedo incriments.

Its quick but the power need refining in the mid area. I hope I can sort things out. And if I can, then the plan is to sleeve the bottom end and look to an 85mm set up. I just dont see the point in doing that at the minute because I have failed to make the 1800 set up work. Once the issues are sorted then I can move up to 2ltr, but until then it would be a waste of money as I might suffer the same way.

I wish I had a dyno so I could test a few different things and get to the bottom of this. One thing I'm sure about now though, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this...

IntegraType-R

if you want someone's suggestion that's had problems in the past like yours..
i'd go to a performer X and bigger TB with a 3'' vstack i can almost promise you this will give you 200whp at the least..and solve your midrange problem too.. i had this problem guy, and believe me..it pissed me off so many long nights of staying up reading books, searching HT for answers.. a simple tweak in the cam timing, and better manifold made the difference..
Any motor should react to cam gear tuning, reguardless,, it should lose power or make power..or at least make the map look better, in your case if it didn't do squat, somethings wrong.. either the cams aren't degreed in or something's wrong....personally i'm not trying to say mase is a bad tuner, but i'd get a second opinion... Thats why i started doing tuning's myself.. because i got a second opinion..and i ended up making more then some other person did.. with just minor tweaks he didn't want to take the time and do...

IntegraType-R

I got a few basemaps from my new setup which reads alittle higher compression then yours but basically the same setup..
i'm running 11.8~12.0 CR on a stock itr block w/ jdm gsr head..no portwork what so ever, the head port wise is stock..
i cleaned the runners up myself but thats all..i dont believe you've reached any limits to the stock porting on the head at all i think its something to do tuning/induction wise.. and the fact that dd's read lower..
Just a comparsion..
when my R motor was completely stock usdm block w/ gsr head, and gsr manifold. Stock usdm r header's, and stock intake..i'm talking nothing done.. the car put down 163whp on a Dynodynamics.
put down 185whp on a dynojet, down the road..
just a fyi it might just be the dyno and we're all dumb.. but i know how much hard work u put into it..if u need anymore help pm me..

cyber gook

Thanks for the replys dude, all food for thought. Yea as you suspected, I'm heart broken this set up isnt making over 200whp. And I will get to the bottom of it.

I'm running about 12.4:1 compression actually...I will find out the angles that were cut on the valve seats. Plus when my port job was CC and flow tested results were unworrying. cc was within 1 on each cylinder and max flow was increased 3% lol

neophyte210

if all your shooting for is 200WHP i can pretty much gurantee that a portmatched performer X mani 70mm tapered TB and a 3inch short ram with velocity stack will do it!!!!!

not to mention that when you change that stuff you will have to dial in your cams again,,,, which should change things up ....

if your looking for even more power i would check out the skunk2 pro1 cams