spAdam

iTrader: (1)

So I have a B20z falling into my lap for a very reasonable price, but it most likely needs some work if not a whole rebuild. So I'm spitballing here and making a list of things that I'd like to do to it while I'm in there, all of this is very tentative until the motor is on the stand and I see what knid of shape its in internally though.

I'd like to keep it tunable on 87, and eventually with a dual mapped NepTune setup... one map for daily'ing on 87 and one for 93.

Here's what I'm definitely using:

-98 spec itr header
-EM1 airbox, itr intake hose
-Some sort of intake manifold (Skunk2, blox, etc)
-Apex'i ws2 exhaust
-Magnaflow 2.5" cat
-00 gsr trans
-tuned p28 ecu w/ jumper and stock 99-01 crv ecu for the commute

Things I'd like to do, if total teardown is necessary:

-RS P73-A0 pistons
-P8R head

Obviously there are other things to detail the build, but I'm looking to keep it pretty budget conscious. Not trying to turn my daily into a money pit, especially with my coupe indefinitely on jackstands.

Things I'm concerned with:

Will it be tuneable on 87? The zeal calculator is showing 11.47:1 with an input of 47cc's for the chamber volume and using 84.5 pistons (I would imagine that there is some error in there, I'm not using exact specs AND I've seen error in that calculator before). I know this is pushing it, but I also know that its been a LONG time since I've tuned anything and hardware and knowledge base has come a long way. I can also stick with the PHK's and deck .030-.040 and bring it up to just under 10.5:1 which is where I'd really like it to be.

If its workable on 87, will it be okay on the stock crv ecu? I'm not talking about anything performance related here, just reliable and a bit cheaper on the 30 mile drive to work. I'd like to do a mpg oriented map down the road but this is a good solution for the immediate future IF its a viable option.

If I end up decking the head I'm looking at having to throw cam gears into the mix. I don't think clearance is an issue, but its something to keep in mind and something that I'm betting someone here has experience with. That and I'm just not a huge fan of shaving things down.

I'm not opposed to putting cams in it eventually, but I'd like to take care of the stuff that needs to be done with the motor out of the car. I can do the top end stuff later if I'm so inspired...

Thanks for reading, I'm looking forward to the discussion!

DDTECH

Fairly certain it should be ok to do on 87..but i really wouldn't do it.

I'd run a bigger exhaust for sure...and at least a better header.

Otherwise the motor looks like it could be a decent build.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I'm not looking for huge numbers, really just a perky motor for driving around town. I'm pretty sure the a 2.5 exhaust will be good for what I'm doing, and I need it to be quiet.

The 87 is because I'm cheap. It just doesn't make sense to me to be paying 4-6 bucks a tank more for cruising on the highway. I'd like to have the option of running premium and making a bit more power when I take it out for an auto-x or some other weekend fun, but the full obd2 functionality on the daily commute would be nice too. I'm thinking swapping the ecu's might be a good option in the short term while a dual-map setup would be something to step up to as funds allow.

I should also mention a couple other stipulations of the build:

-Very OEM appearing
-Full OEM functionality

My girlfriend has to be able to drive the thing once in a while without me thinking twice about it. It also needs to be able to get down the road without drawing any attention. I'm too old to put up with 19 yr old kids revving on me and cops following me around town waiting for me to screw up, not to mention that theft is a major problem here so low-key is ideal. Aside from being lowered and having an EM1 lip and OE fogs, the car is completely stock appearing and I really like it that way. Its even on 01 ex steel wheels and covers.

The header is going to be used because I have it and it fits with my stock-appearing stipulation. Only other exhaust setup that I'd really consider is a 2.5" Kteller b-pipe with an RSX muffler.

What do you think the upper limits are for cr when running 87?

K7-1Ktrevor

just a fyi the itr style intake mani will kill low end power. you could look into doing a b16 intake mani. I love mine. pulls strong from idle to redline.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I noticed that when I put one on my gsr motor back in the day. Thats definitely something to keep in mind. Thanks.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

So here's where I'm at with this... I figured I'd just keep this thread updated with progress and ask my questions in here...

So here's how I spent a couple evenings last week:

Wednesday, 6pm:

















The bad that I knew of:



7pm, no good news when I opened it up, but nothing that can't be fixed:







8pm:





Dropped the block off at the machine shop on Thursday, waiting to here the post-hone verdict on if I need to bore or not. Spent the evening cleaning stuff. Got the pistons and whatnot lookin real good:



Head is pretty much screwed. Its saveable but by the time I buy new valve guides and do all the work, I might as well find another and freshen it up. I'll still end up with a basically brand new motor for less than I would have spent on a used import or crv motor. Feels good to tear into one, its been a while.

Got the call back from the machine shop yesterday, The hone didn't catch everything in the cylinder. So it looks like I'm going oversize.

I was originally wanting to go with the RS or YCP itr's if I had to do pistons, but if my calculations are correct The cr is gonna be way too high. I think I'm just gonna go with .25mm o/s PHK's and factory rings. If I do that and mill .025" off the head I can hit my 10:1 cr on the nose.

My P8R is in the mail now, Once I get the block done I'll clay it up to see just how much clearance I have with the 33mm valves before I start milling.

DA is best

iTrader: (1)

Nice, I'm in for this

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

Ever think about a thicker headgasket to lower CR if you REALLY want to run 87 octane?

IMO, I would juts suck it up and use 93/91 all the time. Its only $2 more per tank in our cars...

Ive also got a P8R head on my build 84.5mm 10:1CR turbo motor... Youre gonna love it.

Aesthetic Gains

iTrader: (1)

This would be my dream daily motor.
In for more

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Wait so you have the engine open. You are doing a rebuild. Why not do a mild build that will run nicely on 91 oct. Like rs machine itr style pistons. arp rod bolts. gsr/b16 head. and some mild cam. guaranteed around 200whp if not more with a proper tune and supporting intake manifold and a header/exhaust combo. And i am with you on that one tonio. I would love a stock block oem b20z2 with a vtec head and some arp rod bolts in it just for safety butt ill stick to building mt b20v 84.5x89 13.0+ CR on e85 with some pro2/3 cams or all motors grinds if i can afford them when its cam time.
Good luck.

92civiceg9gsr

^ because big torquey non vtec is great for a beater that gets good gas mileage and turns the ac compressor easily.

K7-1Ktrevor

those pistons alone would be another $300 easy when he could just mill .040" off the head and get it running tittys for near nothing... you have to realize not every one wants the same honda-tech cookie cutter motor...

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I'm not concerned with anything being cookie cutter OR trying to be different. Doubtful that anyone around will really know about this motor other than me when its running. I've just built enough vtec motors, including some serious 2.0's, and I'm curious to see what I can do with this setup while keeping it real mild.

Not looking for big power, just useable power. And I've never really cared for the 89mm cranks for high-revving vtec motors, the only way I'll do another 2L is with a sleeved and punched gs-r block. But thats my personal taste. I have a built 1.8 in the garage if I really feel like revving something to 9k.

Thanks man. I actually am going to take .027 off of the head to hit 10:1 with .25mm OS pistons. I think with a little tuning it will be good to go. I'm going to try a couple of chips for now, until I can get setup with NepTune. Eventually I'd like to run a dual map setup and be able to lean burn it on the highway. We'll see. Its a project, no fun if its done all at once, right? Ithink I'm gonna split the difference and go for 89, but honestly, millions of cr-v's run on 87 every day. This one is just going to be a touch higher on the cr.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

A quick question regarding aftermarket bearings... specifically ACL

Forgive my ignorance, I've always used OE main and rod bearings. But the ACL's only come in one standard size and one +0.001" size... Do you have to compensate for this by resizing the rods and main journals? Or are they made to a lower tolerance than the Honda parts... or am I missing something entirely?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Parts starting to trickle in. ARP rod bolts showed up yesterday, pistons/rings the day before. Block should be done w/ machining by tomorrow. P8R head is sitting on my workbench waiting for me to give it a once over, and otherwise I've been degreasing, blasting, and polishing a lot of crap.

Did lots of reading, I think I'll be good to go with the ACL race, I'm just at a point where they are less than half the price of the Honda stuff and appear to be as good, aside from the sizing. My mains are all browns except for a black at number 3, so everything SHOULD still be in tolerance. We'll see.

Thinking about building a cam fixture for a non vtec since I don't see any available commercially... nor do I think the available ones are worth what they charge for them.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Let the fun begin...

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

SWEET! Ill be watching this thread...

Im a fellow non-VTEC lover also. Got a fully built/sleeved 2.0L w/ P8R head looking for 600 on a 6262.

As for the bearings, My ACL Race;s were OK. IIRC, the mains came out to be .002-.0017 and the rods were a tad bit tighter @ .0012-.0015. I was using Eagle rods though... Crank and mains were all std sized.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. I'm going to pick up a set this week so I can start putting the bottom end together. Going with standard size, my mains were all brown except for #3 which was black... all one notch thicker than the standard green so I should be good on that, but the plastigage will tell.

The rods have been reconditioned and re-sized with the arp's in them. My machinist told me to check them with the plastigage and he'll adjust the rod sizing as needed, but by both of our calcs they should be good to go as well.

Once the block is together I'll drop the head on and check the p2v clearance so I have an idea of how much room I have to work with. Planning on using a 2-layer head gasket and decking the head .020 which should net me exactly 10:1. I really went back and forth on whether to use the stock oversize pistons or go with the rs machine ones. I decided that if I had done the higher compression I would end up wanting cams sooner than later, so on and so forth and that I build end up with another fully built money pit which is what I'm trying to avoid with this build.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Just get rs machine pistons and have a lill non vtec all motor fun setup. If i was in your boat. I would get them with out any further thoughts.

dirtyharryhatch

Wont those piston's give you problems with cams?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Not sure. I ended up getting a set of factory OS PHK's.

Pistons, rods, and ARP's are already together, rods resized:

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

The rs machines or oem ones? Oem ones will with anything bigger then a ctr/itr cam. <<<<<<this is the info i read on here so if its wrong. dont hate

dirtyharryhatch

The oem ones yeah.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I'm staying nonvtec. But I do have the 33mm intake valves, so I have to be aware of that.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Got the head back last week, been so busy I just got to pull it out and start working on it tonight:





Nothing special, just a good clean, fresh 3-angle and new valve seals. Everything was in great shape already.