Boostage

Who here has every stretched or snapped Stock ls rod bolts? going thru the acrhives everyone says that with an Ls/vtec swap you shouldnt go past 8k. where is this magic number coming from? is there evidence that the bolts start stretching after that? or is it just an assumption?


Modified by Boostage at 10:35 PM 5/24/2007

Jay_Sensing

I think it's an assumption and a 100 dollar insurance policy honestly. We had a local low 12 second b20vtec back in 03 that was running stock EVERYTHING in a crx and he was turning the car to 8200 and it lived it's life on the track 2 times a week and 30 mile commute to work. When he got tired of the 12.40's, he sprayed it to 11.60's and drove it on the bottle for another year.

AFAIK, both the B20 and the B18b share the same smaller rod bolts and his held up fine. When I was building mine though, I changed them out for ARP's simply because of the price and peace of mind it offered knowing that was one less thing to fail on my car with the way I planned to drive it.

Boostage

that sorta falls back to my question. is it a case where no one has actually broke the bolts?

SE3Pimp

as a matter of fact most people say dont rev past 6800-7200, which is the stock redline area of the LS. its not made up, no one would just randomly say that. how could someone think by slappin a vtec head on make them rev to 1200rpm higher? how does one not think the bottom end cant handle it? not to mention the r/s ratio on an ls is very poor. people have snapped rod bolts, and even broken rods revving that high on a stock block stock vtec head setup. sure you can rev to 8 grand, you can do it probably 10 times, but then... you wont like the results. seriously... its not a gsr, dont do it unless its built and capable of it

Boostage

proof?

MR.johnson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">proof?</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch

look around.

if you wont belive us. do it your self. blow your fuucking motor.

also look at this...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1676914

89EF_Turbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EndlessDc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as a matter of fact most people say dont rev past 6800-7200, which is the stock redline area of the LS. its not made up, no one would just randomly say that. how could someone think by slappin a vtec head on make them rev to 1200rpm higher? how does one not think the bottom end cant handle it? not to mention the r/s ratio on an ls is very poor. people have snapped rod bolts, and even broken rods revving that high on a stock block stock vtec head setup. sure you can rev to 8 grand, you can do it probably 10 times, but then... you wont like the results. seriously... its not a gsr, dont do it unless its built and capable of it</TD></TR></TABLE>So basicly you're saying that the GSR's r/s ratio of 1.58:1 makes that much more of a difference over the LS's 1.54:1? That's a complete crock right there, I've had this r/s argument over and over and it's not going to make that big of a difference between the 2, especially with how light the rotating assembly is when compared to larger v6/v8 engines where this might be a factor. Biggest issue with the LS engine is the head...floating rocker arms. They tend to pop off over 7500rpm. As for the rod bolts themselves, yes they are small (same size used on d16's) but I've never seen one break either. I've seen rods snap before due to a gross over-rev (read missed shift), but the bolts were always intact. Like said, more of a peace of mind thing...especially when taking into account these motors are hitting the 10 year old mark.

Jay_Sensing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EndlessDc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> its not made up, no one would just randomly say that. how could someone think by slappin a vtec head on make them rev to 1200rpm higher?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Because the rev range of a motor is determined by the HEAD AND VALVETRAIN!!!!!

The bottom end of a motor is nothing more than an airpump, period. It has **** to do with rev range as long as it holds together. You rev a motor to where it makes power and the head/cams determine that.


And Rod/Stroke ratio is less than a joke/wives tale. Do some research, a guy from GM actually took the time to take the same engine and change wrist pin height and rod length on an same displacement motor and they made within 3 or 4 hp of each other at the SAME RPM. R/S means nothing as long as it's put together right. Hell I turn that "shitty ratio" motor to 9400 rpm's over and over and over at the track with 0 issues and then drive it on the street wherever I want with no worries.

haveaNOSday

well I had a completly bone stock D16z6 boosting 25psi running an EIC-4 with conservitive timing .75/lb retard. which allowed me to rev the motor to 9000rpm I ran 14.1 @ 101mph and after 5 months of beating the **** out of it, it started knocking then grenaded in front of my house no. 3 cyl. lost oil pressure because of a streched rod bolt. just an example of how much abuse stock rod bolts can take. for the record I installed arp rod bolts in my daily ls/vtec simply for peice of mind.

SE3Pimp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">proof?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if your that way fine.. snap your rod bolts or break other parts it aint my car. just tell us the aftermath on this thread.

while your at it... go to japan, slap the honda engineers in the face because us smart americans discovered the ultimate solution for a motor.....

im just sayin, there might be a reason why theres a 1200rpm difference in the redline between a gsr and ls. id constitute alittle more than half of the difference being the head, and half being the bottom end reliability..

my .02

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EndlessDc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if your that way fine.. snap your rod bolts or break other parts it aint my car. just tell us the aftermath on this thread.

while your at it... go to japan, slap the honda engineers in the face because us smart americans discovered the ultimate solution for a motor.....

im just sayin, there might be a reason why theres a 1200rpm difference in the redline between a gsr and ls. id constitute alittle more than half of the difference being the head, and half being the bottom end reliability..

my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>

No motor from any brand car has the rev limited determined by the bottom end. cars have to have a compromise between power,driveability and emmisions. the cam shaft is designed with those key things in mind. a cams usually have very little overlap for idle quality and emisions. and typically only big enough to make decent power in normal driving rpms. redline is sett just after factory cams stop making power. it has NOTHING to do with rod bolts.

Now if you dont have proof of the bolts snapping and stretching. then just say that you dont. but otherwise your not contributing anything to the topic.