omniman

a lot of things cant be said due to "political reasons" but most people that build drag racing engines for a living, and this isnt directed towards anyone in general, dont build good street engines. a drag engine only has to last 30-50 miles so almost any clearance will do. what most people un-knowingly want is a motor that runs like stock and makes great hp and is very reliable and lasts 50k-100k miles with minimal maintanence. for street guys (you) generally experienced good road race engine builders (short list) can sometimes do a better job. there are really 3 types of engine builders, road race builders, drag race builders and street builders. its rare to see one outfit a master at all 3, because all 3 types have different and conflicting goals.

a 2000ish pound front wheel drive street honda really has trouble using more than 250-300 whp effectively on the street. you cant get traction in the first 2 gears even with good drag radials. you can never beat the 4wd evo8 at a stop light race even if you make more power. what is your goal with this car and engine? have you thought that maybe your building a setup that might not suit your real needs.

Bond

I have recently got into drag racing. I had this short block built by this company so that I can drag race it on the weekends and be able to drive down to the track and providing everything holds up, back home at the end of the race day.

Basically a motor I can drop into my second car (currently working on getting it legal for the strip) and continue my passion of drag racing without needing to trailor it.

This will not be a daily driver and "may" see a sunny sunday drive down to the local dyno.

I did make this clear at the time of the build, but looks like I got taken for a bit of a ride. It's hard to dump thousands of dollars and be stuck at square one. Thats why some of us keep asking the same question untill we hear a response we want to here lol. Otherwise it's easier to just burn my wallet and sell everything...

I'm into this build now for alot of money, but now with this new news I'm pretty discouraged to say the least. FML...

omniman

you dont need 500 hp to run brakets, and you dont seem like the type that has a budget to run a pro class thats heads up. what class were you going to run?

Bond

Starting in sportsman class. Our local track just started an NHRA sport compact series this year and I was gunning for that in the near future, but who knows now.

500whp wasn't really serious about that. I'm not much for getting bragging rights lol. I would be alot happier with 300whp that can actually get to the ground.

I'm not new to cars, but I am new to engine building as I'm sure you can tell.

Either way at this point I'm in no spirits to continue at full speed with the motor or car.

Real question is: What do I do now? Waste more money putting my faith in someone else again?

FML...

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Omni, you are making some very sweeping statements without a shred of proof to back it. I'm still asking how did you come to those conclusions.

OP, if this is race motor, stick to what MOTU and I said. This BS about eagle rods and ACL bearings is just that. I know for a fact you can make 550 whp on eagle rods with zero problems. I know for a fact you can run acl bearings if they give you the desired clearances.

OP, don't let other members pessimism deter you. Sometimes, the "older/experienced" guys forget that they had to learn a few things along the way.

AMG

Just wanted to say thanks for your debate ALL, I am learning through all of this. Keep it up! lol

Rocket

I see the point of the post. The OP needed to get a survey to figure out what he received from his builder is in-line or out of line from others. I am guessing he wanted to see arguments for both sides of the clearance scale so he can weigh the information for himself. I can understand that.

On a closing remark, look at the Helms manual and see the trend between the higher performance engine B18C v. B18B. Clearance range is different between the two.

Also on the range 0.0009" is the low end of the main clearance for B18B. You would never want to run that clearance on B18B let alone B18C unless your block and crank retains perfect geometry at temp and under load.

raiden571

subscribed. really the materials are what are different if anything between the two bearings. clearance is clearance, has nothing to do with quality.
you can buy a set of acls and if your bearings are a lil tight or loose on a specific journal, then order the proper honda bearing to correspond. no need to spend 200 dollars on OEM bearings when you can get a set of ACLs for 35 bux on ebay and buy like two journals worth from honda

pk386

same here.

Bond

So what do I do now??

I'm not new to cars or engines, but I would never trust myself (nor have the measuring tools necessary) to do the job correctly. Thats why I had GE build the short block (since they sleeved it, align hone, blue printed, balanced, etc.)

So I trusted the work to be done in a correct fashion. This being said I have already gone ahead and installed the head, etc. I had only recently went through my blue print sheet again and started to do some research on the topic of clearances.

Thus, this is were I am at....

Conan the Destroyer

vouch. needed help one night with timing on a milled head. cost me 1 blue moon pale ale, and a b16 throttle body. all parties involved were satisfied.

i bookmarked a post in this thread for further reference.......because i have never seen game of death.

alterdcreations

Personally if it were me.......
I would mic up the rods and mains and order honda bearings and have them coated.
I would go for .002" all around. That should handle what you throw at it and still make it around the city on weekends

DC_Legacy

BINGO!! Omni finally said it, lol....Wow I havent seen this many Honda motor allstars all in one thread in a while, is AM turning around?

OP, nobodys here to rag on you or look down on you for asking, but you also have to step away from the internet sometimes to find your answer.

I might have posted a thread on HT once or twice while researching or assembling my LS/V, but most of the info I needed for my build was right there in the Helms manual.

I came across some older threads that Earl Laskey commented on about bearing clearances but just about everyone else had a differing opinion about what worked best for them, which typically applied to racing orriented specs where durabilty wasnt really a main factor, so I figured the book was my safest bet.

I wanted longevity, so for me I went toward the tighter side of the manuals recommendations (~.0013" mains&rods) and felt this was a sensible clearance selection since the motor is rarely taken to 7500, and is daily driven.

As for oil I went with Hondas recommendation and only use a 5 weight oil.

Combustion Contraption

Steve, Omniman, really does have a good sense of humor in person, and he's right, it is tough to get the voice inflections to come across the interwebz properly.

Conan the Destroyer

"hey man, do you have a toilet, i have to **** so bad my eyes are turning yellow."

flatblack crx

u should ask turbos what he thinks of those specs........haha

Bond

???

Is that an inside joke or did this person run the same specs?

DonF

Turbo will not answer as he disagrees with most of the posts, as this is supposed to a drag motor. He did look in the Clevite bearing race spec book and noticed they wanted .001 per crank dia. which would be .00216 main and .001771 rod, but figured Clevite did not know much and would run the rods @ .002, unless this was a street engine. Unless you have an oil heater, oil temp never gets to operating temp. at the drags. I will ask him some opinion's, but his orig opinion is "run it" but go to a better(higher) weight oil for a turbo, stress load and all.

d15Beta

hahaha i must say.. this is a great thread, not many these days

notable peeps chiming in.. sharing info on facts and opinions, or opinions and facts lol whichever side u sit on hehe... awesome either way!

Turbo is a bad a$$ dogstar, that can sense good power on an engine dyno by a howl..
he likes beer haha

donF- i read i think sumwer (on some of the stuff i bought) sae papers about that number , interesting that clevite is in the same number/value on the journal sizing to clearance...


also.. my daily is on ACL, ive racked 7,000+miles in 3months.. i hope next month it spins a bearing or sumthing LOL!!!

Bond

So what your saying is someone has run these specs before? Well I guess thats a relief...

What is everyones opinion on the variances between the main bearings. .0021-.0023??

Is that a big jump from eachother?

Also if I were to go with a thicker weight oil I should be thinking about running 20w-??

If someone can help answer these questions that would be great! I love the discussion aswell. A bunch of opinions are better then a few. Thanks again everyone!

I don't want to blame GE, but need opinions on what the hell happened and what to do next.

d15Beta

if GE sleeved the block.. they have nothing to do with the clearances.. unless they wer involved in micropolishing the crank and doing the fitting?


anyways.. like sum1 said.. MOTU's advice is golden for ur build.. follow his advice.. which is in the first page... if u dont? then.. theres not much sense in having this thread

alterdcreations

I would listen to the dog. Tighten up the rods alittle.
what weight oil would you say he should run givin his spec' s and 3-5 min idle should heat it up some?

Rocket

If it's a 500whp turbo, it might get to temp.

Bond

So I have a guy locally thats coming out to my shop and we'll be changing the main bearings out for tighter ones.

From what I'm getting from DonF's post is that:

-clevite suggests .001771. My rods are at .0018-.0019=do I go bigger clearance?

-Mains need to be tightened up. I'm pretty sure I get that point now lol. Where should be my target range? #1,2,4,5 .0018 and #3 at .0020? Or even tighter? Since I'm doing it over again, lets do it right this time

Oh I also forgot to mention, they did an align bore when they installed arp main studs. would this change anything to do with my main clearances? I would think no because they align bored it straight incase any caps twisted.

I want this thing to last draging it, but don't want to be afraid to go to a local dyno day.

d15beta: GE built the short block. I sent pistons, rods, etc and they sleeved, did all machining, clearances, and assembly. I've never done a bottom end before so I let them do it.

hybrid_KJ

I think you are sweating this too much. For a weekend/strip car those clearances will work. Personally I would have gone tighter on the mains also but just run it as is and go with a thicker oil.